Biblical Prophecies About Muhammad

Katherine wrote: Dr. Badawi thinks that the expression "their brethren" in Deuteronomy 18:18 means the brethren of the Ishmaelites.  Ishamel and Isaac were half brothers and could be considered "brethren."  But in this case (Deut 18:18) if we are truly to discover the real identity of the prophet who would be like Moses, we must consider the expression in its context.  God said, "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren." Of whom is God speaking when he speaks of "them" and "their"? When we go back to the first two verses of Deuteronomy 18 we find the answer: "The Levitical priests, that is, all the tribe of Levi, shall have no portion or inheritance with Israel ... they shall have no inheritance among their brethren".  Deuteronomy 18.1-2. It is abundantly clear from these two verses that "they" refers to the tribe of Levi and that "their brethren" refers to the remaining eleven tribes of Israel. This is an inescapable fact. No honest method of interpretation or consistent method of exposition can possibly allow that Deuteronomy 18.18 refers to anyone else than the tribe of Levi and the remaining tribes of Israel.  Let's examine the only possible exposition of the prophecy that can lead to a correct interpretation and identification of "their brethren". We need only accentuate the relevant words from Deuteronomy 18.1-2 to discover the only possible conclusion that can be drawn. The text reads: "The tribe of Levi shall have no inheritance with Israel. They shall have no inheritance among their brethren. Therefore the only logical interpretation of Deuteronomy 18.18 can be: "I will raise up for them (that is, the tribe of Levi) a prophet like you from among their brethren (that is, one of the other tribes of Israel)". Throughout the Old Testament we often find the expression "their brethren" meaning the remaining tribes of Israel as distinct from the tribe specifically referred to. Look at this verse as an example:

Hi Katherine,

I think either you didn't read the whole chapter of Deuteronomy or you are simply hiding the facts. In either case, your allusion that proverbs like "they" or "their" refers to levites in Deuteronomy 18:18 is not correct. Though you are correct that Deut 18 begins with the special address to Levites but this part of special address finishes at Deut 18:8. Beyond that it again resumes the same address to general public of Israel. Kindly note that there is a change of pronoun (both highlighted and underlined words are mine to put emphasis) between 18:6-8 and 18:9. Here is the evidence for this change for the Levites but pronoun "you" remains same for the Israelites that continues till 18:18: "18:6 If a Levite moves from one of your towns anywhere in Israel where he is living, and comes in all earnestness to the place the LORD will choose, 7 he may minister in the name of the LORD his God like all his fellow Levites who serve there in the presence of the LORD. 8 He is to share equally in their benefits, even though he has received money from the sale of family possessions.

Detestable Practices

 9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in ^[a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God." 

Let us see some more interesting evidence that totally contradicts you hypothesis that the pronoun in Duet 18:18 referes only to Levites. Kindly note the admonition to "them" to obey forthcoming Prophet in Duet 18:15 and then at 18:19. So do you intend to say that only Levites were to obey this command and not all of the Isealities? Since we know this is false, hence your allusion is also not correct. Here is the rest of the portion of the Dueteronmy 18 for everyone to see for themselves (kindly note the underlined words in the highlighted text).

"The Prophet

 14 The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so. 15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. 16 For this is what you asked of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, "Let us not hear the voice of the LORD our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die."

 17 The LORD said to me: "What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account."

Your further examples from rest of the OT (Judges or Kings) is totally un-correlated with the present discussion especially the brethern of Isrealites simply because the those books were not claimed to be authored by Moses. Hence the context in which word "brethren" is used is totally different than by the one used by Moses.

Katherine wrote: ..Even this does not do the job.  What is needed is to find out how Jesus and Moses were uniquely alike whereas Muhammad was not.

Yap! that is what may be of interest otherwise what all have been said is like saying as Moses walked so did Jesus; as Moses talked so did Jesus; as Moses breathe so did Jesus. Surprised to see this kind of endless comparision.   

Edited by AhmadJoyia

I'm keeping my Mormon ideologies out of this arguement.  I could really put a twist on this that would be head hurting. 

yes ahmad - the maps are interesting.  the 2nd one simply because it reveals the utter lack of basis to the claim that paran is mecca.  it is an empty piece of graphics.  the rising sun motif (reaching its zenith in muhammad, of course), ressembling an old fashioned ad for breakfast cereals, is just silly.  nowhere is it explained how "paran" comes to be written where "mecca" should be.

the real interest lies in the first map.  i cannot imagine why the writer has included it.  it disproves his entire case.  the map features 2 border lines, in orange. the one on the left is the border between the modern state of israel and the sinai peninsula (you can actually see the word peninsula), currently under the jurisdiction of egypt.  the border on the right is the israeli-jordanian border.  i looked up my readers digest world atlas to confirm this.  the 2 borders converge to the south to a point at elat on the gulf of aqaba.  the key words are negev, the desert area in the south of israel, and the name of the town be'er menuha, in israel, close to the jordanian border.  the writer has very handily highlighted paran in yellow.  this refers to nahal paran, in the atlas shown as a river (probably seasonal) flowing from the region of paran, which is therefore exactly where the bible says it is - north eastern sinai, going up towards israel.  having got out my measuring tape, and calculated according to the scale of the map, i make this 1140 km from mecca - not even close!

the last part of the section you referred me to, starting with "the ishmaelites were arabs, not egyptians" is extremely mystifying, as the author seems to be labouring under the bizzarre delusion that someone is claiming that the ishmaelites were egyptians.  i know of noone who has made this claim, and the author does not enlighten us on this issue.  he is charging at windmills, don quixote-style, i fear.  his quotation from genesis 37: 25 offers no help.  it merely tells us they were on their way to egypt from gilead (which is on the east bank of the jordan, the area to the north of modern-day amman). this verse does not refer to where they lived

im sure ill have more to add to the other things you posted

Angela wrote: Katherine, I was just adding a joke.  I see this same exact arguement once every three months on this website.  A christian comes on and gives these same arguements which are refutted by the muslims here and its a neverending dance.  <>You and Fredi are new....these arguements are new to you.  They aren't to the more senior members of the board.  They get rather tiresome and usually end up in a fight that causes the thread to be closed.  Sorry.

That's OK, Angela.  I am also familiar with these arguments.  The Muslims are looking frantically for Muhammad in the Bible and I have read all of their claims and none of them hold up.

Christians run into the same problem with the Jews, bless their hearts.  As you probably know Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah--not just any Messiah--but the "special" Messiah--the one that the Jews are still waiting for.  They reject Jesus as their Messiah and say that the Christians are wrong.

Interestingly enough, the Qur'an calls Jesus "the Messiah."  Every prophet was a "messiah" or an "annointed one."  As said above Jesus was the special Messiah.  I wonder on what basis the Muslims make the claim that Jesus was the Messiah?  Prophecies in the Old Testament?  If so, which ones?  And further than that I wonder what the Muslims believe the special Messiah was to do.  The Qur'an does not tell us.

Blessings.