Biblical Prophecies About Muhammad |
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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Hi Katherine, I think either you didn't read the whole chapter of Deuteronomy or you are simply hiding the facts. In either case, your allusion that proverbs like "they" or "their" refers to levites in Deuteronomy 18:18 is not correct. Though you are correct that Deut 18 begins with the special address to Levites but this part of special address finishes at Deut 18:8. Beyond that it again resumes the same address to general public of Israel. Kindly note that there is a change of pronoun (both highlighted and underlined words are mine to put emphasis) between 18:6-8 and 18:9. Here is the evidence for this change for the Levites but pronoun "you" remains same for the Israelites that continues till 18:18: "18:6 If a Levite moves from one of your towns anywhere in Israel where he is living, and comes in all earnestness to the place the LORD will choose, 7 he may minister in the name of the LORD his God like all his fellow Levites who serve there in the presence of the LORD. 8 He is to share equally in their benefits, even though he has received money from the sale of family possessions. Detestable Practices9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God." Let us see some more interesting evidence that totally contradicts you hypothesis that the pronoun in Duet 18:18 referes only to Levites. Kindly note the admonition to "them" to obey forthcoming Prophet in Duet 18:15 and then at 18:19. So do you intend to say that only Levites were to obey this command and not all of the Isealities? Since we know this is false, hence your allusion is also not correct. Here is the rest of the portion of the Dueteronmy 18 for everyone to see for themselves (kindly note the underlined words in the highlighted text). "The Prophet 14 The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so. 15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. 16 For this is what you asked of the LORD your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, "Let us not hear the voice of the LORD our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die." 17 The LORD said to me: "What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account." Your further examples from rest of the OT (Judges or Kings) is totally un-correlated with the present discussion especially the brethern of Isrealites simply because the those books were not claimed to be authored by Moses. Hence the context in which word "brethren" is used is totally different than by the one used by Moses.
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Katherine
Guest Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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How was Jesus uniquely like Moses whereas
Muhammad was not?
Look at the prophecy which gives us an indication of who the prophet is in Deut. 18: "The Lord your God will raise up for a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren � him you shall heed � just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God or see this great fire any more, lest I die.'" Deuteronomy 18:15-16. The prophet would be raised up just as God had raised Moses up as the mediator of the covenant which he gave at Horeb. The Israelites pleaded with Moses to become a mediator between them and God because they did not wish to hear God's voice face to face, and God said "They have rightly said all that they have spoken" (Deuteronomy 18.17). God henceforth raised Moses up as the mediator of the covenant between himself and Israel. God spoke to Moses in a very special way. Muhammad was not a mediator of a covenant. Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. Exodus 33.11 The Qur'an also teaches that God spoke directly to Moses in a way in which he did not speak to other prophets (Surah 4.164). Furthermore, to confirm the great mediatorial work which Moses was to perform, God did great signs and miracles through him in the presence of all Israel. Now as God had promised that the prophet to come would be like him in this mediatorial work, we must conclude that the distinguishing features of the prophet would be these: 1. He would be the direct mediator of a covenant between God and his people; 2. He would know God face to face. 3. His office would be confirmed by great signs and wonders which he would do by the power of God in the sight of all the nation of Israel. Read Deuteronomy 34:10-12, And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face, none like him for all the signs and wonders which the Lord sent him to do in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, and for all the mighty power and all the great and terrible deeds which Moses performed in the sight of all Israel. The three distinguishing features of Moses as a prophet are clearly mentioned: he was the mediator, between god and Israel he knew the Lord face to face, and he did great signs and wonders. The prophet like him would obviously have to emulate these unique features of his prophethood. Muhammad did not possess these exceptional characteristics by which the prophet was to be recognized. "Why are not (signs) sent to him like those which were sent to Moses?" Surah 28:48 Jesus is the mediator of a new covenant. See Hebrews 9:15, "And for this reason He (Jesus) is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance." See, 1 Corinthians 11:25, "This cup is the New Covenant in my blood." God's promise of the coming of a prophet like Moses who would mediate a new covenant was one of the great blessings in the days preceding the advent of Jesus Christ. Hebrews 8:6-13, "But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." (Quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34) In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." Jesus brought the New Covenant. Jesus therefore is the promised prophet like Moses for he mediated the New Covenant between God and his people. Like Moses (and in a way in which no other prophet could compare), he also knew God face of face and became a direct mediator between God and men. "I know him, I come from him, and he sent me", Jesus said (John 7.29). Again he proclaimed: "No one knows the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him" (Matthew 11.27). And yet again Jesus said: "Not that anyone has ever seen the Father except him who is from God - he has seen the Father" (John 6.46). And what further evidence do we need that Jesus knew God face-to-face and is the direct mediator between him and men than these two verses: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by me ... Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14.6, 14.9). When he spoke to God face-to-face, "Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him" (Exodus 34. 29-30). When the image of the invisible God was directly revealed through the transfigured face of Jesus Christ, "his face did shine as the sun" (Matthew 17.2). No other prophet could claim such a distinction - no one else knew God face-to-face in such a way that his face shone while he communed with him. Matthew 5:17-18. These verses say that Jesus was to fulfill the law of the prophets. He did this in fulfilling the prophecies of the coming Messiah as described in the Old Testament. He did bring a New Covenant as described above. |
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Angela
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
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I'm keeping my Mormon ideologies out of this arguement. I could really put a twist on this that would be head hurting.
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Katherine
Guest Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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I'm sure that you could, but Mormons are not considered Orthodox Christians. There are parellels between Joseph Smith and Muhammad though and I'm sure I don't have to point them out to you. Let's keep this thread on track, shall we? Peace |
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fredifreeloader
Guest Group Joined: 17 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 456 |
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yes ahmad - the maps are interesting. the 2nd one simply because it reveals the utter lack of basis to the claim that paran is mecca. it is an empty piece of graphics. the rising sun motif (reaching its zenith in muhammad, of course), ressembling an old fashioned ad for breakfast cereals, is just silly. nowhere is it explained how "paran" comes to be written where "mecca" should be. the real interest lies in the first map. i cannot imagine why the writer has included it. it disproves his entire case. the map features 2 border lines, in orange. the one on the left is the border between the modern state of israel and the sinai peninsula (you can actually see the word peninsula), currently under the jurisdiction of egypt. the border on the right is the israeli-jordanian border. i looked up my readers digest world atlas to confirm this. the 2 borders converge to the south to a point at elat on the gulf of aqaba. the key words are negev, the desert area in the south of israel, and the name of the town be'er menuha, in israel, close to the jordanian border. the writer has very handily highlighted paran in yellow. this refers to nahal paran, in the atlas shown as a river (probably seasonal) flowing from the region of paran, which is therefore exactly where the bible says it is - north eastern sinai, going up towards israel. having got out my measuring tape, and calculated according to the scale of the map, i make this 1140 km from mecca - not even close! the last part of the section you referred me to, starting with "the ishmaelites were arabs, not egyptians" is extremely mystifying, as the author seems to be labouring under the bizzarre delusion that someone is claiming that the ishmaelites were egyptians. i know of noone who has made this claim, and the author does not enlighten us on this issue. he is charging at windmills, don quixote-style, i fear. his quotation from genesis 37: 25 offers no help. it merely tells us they were on their way to egypt from gilead (which is on the east bank of the jordan, the area to the north of modern-day amman). this verse does not refer to where they lived im sure ill have more to add to the other things you posted |
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for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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Angela
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
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Katherine, I was just adding a joke. I see this same exact arguement once every three months on this website. A christian comes on and gives these same arguements which are refutted by the muslims here and its a neverending dance. You and Fredi are new....these arguements are new to you. They aren't to the more senior members of the board. They get rather tiresome and usually end up in a fight that causes the thread to be closed. Sorry.
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Katherine
Guest Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 66 |
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That's OK, Angela. I am also familiar with these arguments. The Muslims are looking frantically for Muhammad in the Bible and I have read all of their claims and none of them hold up. Christians run into the same problem with the Jews, bless their hearts. As you probably know Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah--not just any Messiah--but the "special" Messiah--the one that the Jews are still waiting for. They reject Jesus as their Messiah and say that the Christians are wrong. Interestingly enough, the Qur'an calls Jesus "the Messiah." Every prophet was a "messiah" or an "annointed one." As said above Jesus was the special Messiah. I wonder on what basis the Muslims make the claim that Jesus was the Messiah? Prophecies in the Old Testament? If so, which ones? And further than that I wonder what the Muslims believe the special Messiah was to do. The Qur'an does not tell us. Blessings. |
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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An interesting story about "Tribe of Kedar" may help you brother Fredi to link up Prophet Ismai'l, the son of Prophet Ibrahim with the deserts of Arabia. Here is the link for this info. http://www.guidedbiblestudies.com/topics/tribe_of_kedar.htm Here is another such link http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03474a.htm and yet another http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/ishmaelarabs.html all from my Christian brothers' sources. Edited by AhmadJoyia |
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