Biblical Prophecies About Muhammad

The reference to the bronze serpent is here:

"And The Lord said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live." So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live." (Numbers 21:4-9 RSV)

AhmadJoyia wrote: Hi Bro George, Welcome to this thread and the website. Sure you can put forward your thoughts and hopefully someone among us shall see how to comment upon them. Coming to your idea when you say "I think that the prophet like Moses was ultimately Jesus and there is much evidence in support of that view." First of all, I must say that I fully respect your thoughts, though not necessarily agree with them. In that notion, we already had some discussion with sis Katharine {amended} on this thread right in the begining of it when she pasted few instances to show her proofs. Kindly see as how she got responded about them. If you have anything more to it, I love to hear that. May God be with all of us. Amin!

Thank you for the warm greeting.

I read parts of the thread but found it long and tedious.  I would like to simply say that I have read the Christian, Jewish and Muslim arguments about the prophet like Moses in books, from Christians, Jews and Muslims, but mostly from articles on the Internet.

I don't agree with the Muslim position about the "brethren" issue.  Aside from that the Koran does not say that Muhammad was the prophet like Moses and I think Allah would have told us in plain language if he were but he does not.

I will say again that if Muslims want to believe that he is the prophet like Moses, then that is their affair.

"What?? Did I ask Biblical scholars to link "Jesse" as a contraction of "Ishmael"? I don't think so. Probably someone needs house cleaning for themselves than asking others to do it for them. Remember we are analysing the evidence from your own biblical encylopedia. The question of "?" is more appropriate to be addressed to them as what does it mean to them rather taking a stance on conjectures. We are simply reading it from their own writtings, though for us, this is not a big issue to even worry about." 

no you did not ask them for this, but you are using their guesswork (to put it politely) to establish a fact, which is as you know, about as irrational as you can get.  and no, it is not my, or our own encyclopedia.  as for house-cleaning, at least theyre not calling for the death of people converting from christianity, as abul ala maududi is calling for the killing of converts from islam

[ "If "jesse" is a contraction of "Ishmael", then it is only a matter of interpreting the same prophesy but with a different lens. That is not difficult I suppose as usually been done by my Christian brothers despite the Jewish critic. On the other hand, as I have said before, my Muslim brothers only trying to patch up with the existing Bible by looking at some info that might help them establish the fact that the scriptures used by the pre-Islamic Jewish and Christian monks to look at Arabia for their prophised Massiah are the same. The fact that some of them did recognize Mohammad as the one mentioned in their scriptures. But my present day Christian brothers are bent upon differentiating between their own scriptures of the old from the present one. Is their any specific reason to keep such hostility towards Islam?"

but you have yet to interpret the prophecy through any lens - we have yet to hear from you how the prophecy was fulfilled in muhammad.  also, referring to unspecified "jewish and christian monks" is pointless - even if they did as you say, it does not prove they were correct.  the Word of God does not require patching up, it stands on its own and doesnt need any concept such as sunnah to complete it

 "Brother wheather you like it or not, the prophesy clear negates the presence of any divine personality being alluded at. So its really against your own concept of divine Jesus. Secondly you believe about this propesy whatever you think it is, irrespective the owners of the scripture agree with you or not. Since they don't, the same reason can be used by Muslims as well. Its just so simple to understand."

sorry, no. the prophesy does not negate the presence of any divine person unless you wish to exclude the concepts of righteousness and equity from God - such a thing would surely be blasphemous.  the "owners of the scripture" is a very odd concept

"Ok so, at least, you do see this harmonising with the prophesy which is quite naturally 180 degree opposite to your understanding of "faith" based justice."

i do not understand  what you mean here

 "So my dear, if the first part of the prophesy doesn't tally with your understanding, aren't you also making the same error, as you say, picking cherries that you like, in other part of the prophesy? You can't blame others for what you yourself are blamed for."

no the first part of the prophesy tallies perfectly.  who is righteous, but God, and who is equitable, but God?

 "Well you need to prove it, as you say "beyond doubt" instead of simply stating it against the common understanding of the phrase "and his resting-place shall be glorious" by A Hebrew-English Bible according to the Masoretic Text and the JPS 1917 Edition. I do notice why few Biblical translations are even avoiding such a situation by simply twisting the verse so much as not to get embarrsed by it? Here, from Contemporary English Version we read V.10 as "10 The time is coming when one of David's descendants will be the signal for the people of all nations to come together. They will follow his advice, and his own nation will become famous."

One can clearly see a baisness in such translations using the phrase "David's descendants" and totally omitting the words relating to resting-place etc." 

strongs dictionary is quite clear - no mention of a burial place.  what would be "glorious" about that? - a scene of decaying flesh and bones?  is that your glory?  why have you not quoted what the "jps 1917 edition" says? -- as for the "translation" you quote, they are perfectly correct in saying it will be one of davids descendants, though it is not a literal translation - it should be " the root of jesse" - as for his own nation (israel) becoming famous, israel will become great, but this is clearly not the correct translation