The Crucifixion of Jesus

George wrote: AbRah, I want to thank you for this topic.  Even though I do not like your tone or your choice of words, you have given the Christians an opportunity to correct your allegations, mistranslations and misunderstandings.  You have also given the Muslims the opportunity to see our explanations and see how mistaken you are.  Thanks. God, indeed, does work in mysterious ways. Peace

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Yeah God, indeed, does work in mysterious ways. And I have exposed the contradictory statements of the OT and NT and you George are twisting your own words to condone the contradictions of the Bible...You inteprete the contradictory statements according to your own liking to condone the corruption and contradiction of the Bible! You even against the teachings of the Bible by making your own interpretation of the contradictory statements of the OT and NT so that you can win the debate .....It seems to me that you are a desperate preacher who will lie and cheat and twist so that you will win the debate! Yeah God, indeed, does work in mysterious ways. I have met so many Christian preachers like you and I am not surprised to see how you behave!

fredifreeloader wrote: abrah - you are so ignorant.  there are two greek words translated as "tree" in the new testament - 1.  dendron (a living, growing tree)  2. xulon (wood, a piece of wood, anything made of wood) - the second word is used to refer to the cross of our glorious Lord

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My answer: It seems to me that you are the ignorant....Let us consider the following statements of the NT.

a) Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree.

(b)Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

(c)Matthew 27:41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,
Matthew27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

The statements are very clear that the writers of Acts used the word 'TREE' while the writers of the Gospels wrote 'the cross'...The tree and the cross are different things....Why did the writers make contradictory statements if they were honest and trustworthy? Why did the witnesses of the crucifixion who you think were honest and trustworthy give contradictory statements? The only answer is that they were corrupt for making contradictory statements thus the NT is corrupt as result of their misdeeds! If they really witnessed the so-called crucifixion, they would give the same statements about the so-called crucifixion. Therefore the NT is unreliable thus the crucifixion of Jesus is a lie!

Angela's statement: Its doesn't prove the Bible False, its just a completely different format.

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The ealiest Gospel was written about 70 years after Jesus was gone so Jesus was not there to correct the contradictions of the NT. For exampe:

(1) Can one pray in public?  (Matthew 6:5-6) Jesus condemned public prayer.  (1 Timothy 2:8)  Paul encouraged public prayer.

(2) In 1 Corinthians 1:17 ("For Christ sent me [Paul] not to baptize but to preach the gospel") Paul said Jesus was wrong when he said in Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them�"  Clearly one of these people is wrong, either way, it�s a contradiction.

(3) How many blind men besought Jesus?  Matthew 20:30 Two blind men.  Luke 18:35-38 Only one blind man.

(4)Who approached Jesus?  (Matthew 8:5-7)  The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant.  (Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7)  The Centurion did not approach Jesus.  He sent friends and elders of the Jews.

(5)What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus?  Matthew 15:22  "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil."  Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."

Are those statements the words of Jesus? Jesus is a great prophet of Allah and Jesus will not contradict his own words so who did corrupt his teachings into a lie?

On the contrary, the scribers of the prophet Muhammad wrote the verses of Quran as soon as the Prophet Muhammad received the messages from God so there will be no corruption of the Quran because the recitators of Quran ensure that Quran will not be corrupted!

Allah Himself has promised to guard the Qur�an: "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption) [Al-Qur�an 15:9]. The Quran is Allah's greatest blessing for you . It is the fulfillment of His promise to Adam and his descendants: 'there shall come to you guidance from Me, and whatsoever follows My Guidance no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow' (Quran  al Baqarah 2:38).

Again, you are comparing Apples and Oranges.  Of course there can be mistakes in such things like "Was the Woman Greek or Caananite?" when there are so many years separating the events.  But does that mean the event didn't happen???  No of course not.  It just means that there are differences of opinion on where the woman was from.  It doesn't change the events or message, just the details. 

Similar excuses could be used elsewhere.  Such as, did the Prophet forbid ahadiths from being recorded?  Some say yes, other's say no. 

As for your challenges.....

Matthew 6

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

<>document.write(drawVerse(6,73585)); 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

1 Timothy 2

8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

These verses are not contradictory.  They are talking about Prayers to God for the personal relationship between us.  The public prayer that Jesus was denouncing was those that stand up and pray just to be seen.  They are not really praying to God, they just want everyone to see how wonderful they are and their prayers are empty.