The Crucifixion of Jesus

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Alibaba

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Joined: 19 April 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 134

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 12:44pm

The tree/cross issue is very easily resolved. The cross bar to which the Lord Jesus' hands were fastened with nails was elevated to a deep notch in the tree. The tree and cross bar intersected, forming a cross. How hard is that to graps Abby?

Patty

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 14 September 2001
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2382

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:02pm

AbRAH muttered:

"Why did the writers of NT used the word tree five times to refer to Christ's crucifixion on a cross?"

Custom, my son, custom. In their time the cross was referred to as a "tree"...made of wood -- xylon in Greek. It was the custom of the time. Back in my grandfather's day, Levis or jeans were referred to as "dungarees"....same exact thing....different time. Got it now? Same thing, different time, different word used. Think about it.

"This contradiction has confirmed that Jesus was not crucified!"

Don't give up your day job, and please don't tell me you're studying to be a historian or scientist. Sorry, I couldn't help myself...you are so lost on this topic...and you are digging a deeper and deeper whole from which you must extricate yourself.

Think, AbRAH, THINK!

Peace and Blessings to You,

Patty

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.

Patty

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 14 September 2001
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2382

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:11pm

AbRAH asked:

"If you say that he is hung on a cross and I say that that he is hung on lamp post, will the court accept your testimony and mine?"

Absolutely not. Because they are not the same thing. You must know there are more than one word for the exact same thing. For example, I might say "I'm reading the Bible." Another person may say, "I am reading God's Word." They are both reading the same book. It's just two different words for the exact same thing. And that is how it is with "tree" and "cross" -- the exact same object, two different words used to describe it. Historically, it was a tree made into a cross, as ALL historians agree....Christian, Protestant, Agnostic, and/or Atheist. They all agree in the literary form the word "tree" in the context of the Crucifixion, means "cross".

I truly hope this helps you understand.

If I may be so bold as to ask, how old are you? I'm just curious. See, I believe I'm certainly old enough to be your grandmother, I'm 62. (Look 30 though.)

Peace, AbRAH, peace!

Patty

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.

AbRah2006

Guest Group

Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 354

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:27pm

George's statement:

God loves me. I am in God's hands and he will never let me go. I am a child of God and I am his own and he loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

I think God would be proud of my behavior as it is He would helps me answer your allegations against his Holy Bible.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

My response to refute George:

Christians like George claim that what is unique in the case of Jesus, is that he is the only begotten Son of God , while the others are merely �sons of God�. However, God is recorded as saying to Prophet David, in Psalms 2:7, �I will tell the decree of the Lord: He said to me, �You are my son, today I have begotten you.� � .....What does this contradiction mean? It means that that Christians like George, the OT and NT are the liars for slandering Jesus, David and God! The OT and NT are corrupt and immoral!

It should also be noted that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus actually call himself �Son of God�. Instead, he is recorded to have repeatedly called himself �Son of man� (e.g. Luke 9:22) innumerable times. And in Luke 4:41, he actually rejected being called �Son of God�: �And demons also came out of many, crying, �You are the Son of God!� But he rebuked them, and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.�

In the New Testament Book of Acts, there are several outlines of speeches of the early disciples of Jesus, speeches which date from the year 33 CE, almost forty years before the Four Gospels were written. In one of these discourses, Jesus is referred to specifically as andra apo tou theou: �a man from God.� (Acts 2:22). Not once do these early confessions of faith use the expression wios tou theou: �Son of God�, but they do speak several times of Jesus as God�s servant and prophet (Acts 3:13, 22, 23, 26).

Jesus is not the son of God for Jesus is the son of Mary. That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing. He but says to it "Be". and it is. (Quran 19:34-5).

The Bible itself calls Jesus the son of man so many times throughout the Bible to prove that Jesus is a human being.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

George's statement:

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

My response to George's wild claim:

How do you know that God loves you when you have slandered him by saying that He has a begotten son and you claim falsely that you are His child? Aren't you ashamed of yourself for claiming that you are His child when you sin everyday? God is sinless but you are sinful so you cannot be the child of God!

According to Jesus, Moses and Muhammad , God is One and Only and God says that there is none like Him and there is none beside Him so God has no sons and the Trinity is a false doctrine that says God is One in Three.

Moses said "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4) ...Moses doesn't say that God is One in Three!

Jesus said "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29).

And the prophet Muhammad said "And your God is One God: There is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163)

Moses, Jesus and Muhammad did not say that God was One in Three!

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent"(Numbers 23:19 & 20)...God is not a man so human beings are neither His children nor His sons!

Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me....None is like God so human beings are not the sons of God for God is not like human beings!

Quran chapter 112, :� In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad), He is God, the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone�.

***Edited*** Abrah, this type of post will not be allowed. You will not be warned again. Failure to comply with the Guidelines will result in you being banned from this Forum.***

Edited by Mishmish

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

Alibaba

Guest Group

Joined: 19 April 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 134

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:38pm

AbRah, Abby, etc.: you are quoting from the website George referred to - in fact, complete with underlinings. Please, try to think for yourself if you aren't too far gone duck.

Why are you trying to use character assasination against George - he seems like a very nice chap to me, and quite knowledgeable as well. Can't you engage in debate like a gentleman?

Angela

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 11 July 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2555

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:41pm

George,

Don't worry. AbRah is resorting to personal insults and attacks because he's upset his arguements are getting picked apart so easily. I know God loves all his children. Every last one. Even if he's disappointed in us when we sin. Jesus taught love and kindness and respect, no matter what religion you claim as your own. AbRah, has obviously missed these most important teachings.

And AbRah,

***Edited***

Judgement belongs to God only, you can't tell anyone what God will decide as their fate, for only he knows their truest intentions.

Edited by Mishmish

AbRah2006

Guest Group

Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 354

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:45pm

Patty's statement: And that is how it is with "tree" and "cross" -- the exact same object, two different words used to describe it. Historically, it was a tree made into a cross

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

***Edited***

What is a tree?

Perennial woody plant with a single main stem (the trunk, or bole) from which branches and twigs extend to form a characteristic crown of foliage. In general, a tree differs from a shrub in that it has a single trunk, it reaches a greater height at maturity, it branches at a greater distance from the ground, and it increases in size by producing new branches and expanding in girth while a shrub often produces new shoots from ground level. Trees fall into three major divisions: angiosperms, gymnosperms, and pteridophytes. Angiosperms are the most common type, where seeds carried in various fruits are the agents of reproduction. Trees and shrubs may be deciduous, with broad leaves that are shed at the end of the growing season, or evergreen (see conifer), with needlelike or scalelike leaves that are shed at intervals of between 2 and 10 years, thus maintaining green foliage at all seasons. Trees are identified both by the characteristic color and shape of the leaf and by their overall appearance, e.g., the degree and angle of branching, the shape of the crown, and the texture of the bark. Their age can be determined from a count of the annual rings, which represent the diameter growth of a tree each year. Besides their enormous importance in providing oxygen and moisture for the atmosphere and removing harmful carbon dioxide, trees are an important source of food, of wood, and of numerous products (e.g., resins, rubber, quinine, turpentine, and cellulose for the manufacture of paper and various synthetic materials) derived from their wood, bark, leaves, and fruits.

What about the cross? The cross does not has the characteristics of a tree so the cross is not a tree!

Patty please go to your doctor to check your brain and mind! And please check your five senses too !

Edited by Mishmish

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

Alibaba

Guest Group

Joined: 19 April 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 134

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 2:02pm

Abrah, you really need to get back on your medication. You are not debating, you are screaming and using provocative language. Do you think that this in any way deminishes in people's eyes the faith you claim to defend?

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Alibaba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 19 April 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 134	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 12:44pm
	The tree/cross issue is very easily resolved. The cross bar to which the Lord Jesus' hands were fastened with nails was elevated to a deep notch in the tree. The tree and cross bar intersected, forming a cross. How hard is that to graps Abby?

Patty Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14 September 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2382	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:02pm
	AbRAH muttered: "Why did the writers of NT used the word tree five times to refer to Christ's crucifixion on a cross?" Custom, my son, custom. In their time the cross was referred to as a "tree"...made of wood -- xylon in Greek. It was the custom of the time. Back in my grandfather's day, Levis or jeans were referred to as "dungarees"....same exact thing....different time. Got it now? Same thing, different time, different word used. Think about it. "This contradiction has confirmed that Jesus was not crucified!" Don't give up your day job, and please don't tell me you're studying to be a historian or scientist. Sorry, I couldn't help myself...you are so lost on this topic...and you are digging a deeper and deeper whole from which you must extricate yourself. Think, AbRAH, THINK! Peace and Blessings to You, Patty
	Patty I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.

Patty Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 14 September 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2382	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:11pm
	AbRAH asked: "If you say that he is hung on a cross and I say that that he is hung on lamp post, will the court accept your testimony and mine?" Absolutely not. Because they are not the same thing. You must know there are more than one word for the exact same thing. For example, I might say "I'm reading the Bible." Another person may say, "I am reading God's Word." They are both reading the same book. It's just two different words for the exact same thing. And that is how it is with "tree" and "cross" -- the exact same object, two different words used to describe it. Historically, it was a tree made into a cross, as ALL historians agree....Christian, Protestant, Agnostic, and/or Atheist. They all agree in the literary form the word "tree" in the context of the Crucifixion, means "cross". I truly hope this helps you understand. If I may be so bold as to ask, how old are you? I'm just curious. See, I believe I'm certainly old enough to be your grandmother, I'm 62. (Look 30 though.) Peace, AbRAH, peace! Patty
	Patty I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.

AbRah2006 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 13 May 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 354	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:27pm
	George's statement: God loves me. I am in God's hands and he will never let me go. I am a child of God and I am his own and he loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. I think God would be proud of my behavior as it is He would helps me answer your allegations against his Holy Bible. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ My response to refute George: Christians like George claim that what is unique in the case of Jesus, is that he is the only begotten Son of God , while the others are merely �sons of God�. However, God is recorded as saying to Prophet David, in Psalms 2:7, �I will tell the decree of the Lord: He said to me, �You are my son, today I have begotten you.� � .....What does this contradiction mean? It means that that Christians like George, the OT and NT are the liars for slandering Jesus, David and God! The OT and NT are corrupt and immoral! It should also be noted that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus actually call himself �Son of God�. Instead, he is recorded to have repeatedly called himself �Son of man� (e.g. Luke 9:22) innumerable times. And in Luke 4:41, he actually rejected being called �Son of God�: �And demons also came out of many, crying, �You are the Son of God!� But he rebuked them, and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.� In the New Testament Book of Acts, there are several outlines of speeches of the early disciples of Jesus, speeches which date from the year 33 CE, almost forty years before the Four Gospels were written. In one of these discourses, Jesus is referred to specifically as andra apo tou theou: �a man from God.� (Acts 2:22). Not once do these early confessions of faith use the expression wios tou theou: �Son of God�, but they do speak several times of Jesus as God�s servant and prophet (Acts 3:13, 22, 23, 26). Jesus is not the son of God for Jesus is the son of Mary. That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing. He but says to it "Be". and it is. (Quran 19:34-5). *The Bible itself calls Jesus the son of man so many times throughout the Bible to prove that Jesus is a human being.* ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ George's statement: God loves me. I am in God's hands and he will never let me go. I am a child of God and I am his own and he loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ My response to George's wild claim: How do you know that God loves you when you have slandered him by saying that He has a begotten son and you claim falsely that you are His child? Aren't you ashamed of yourself for claiming that you are His child when you sin everyday? God is sinless but you are sinful so you cannot be the child of God! According to Jesus, Moses and Muhammad , God is One and Only and God says that there is none like Him and there is none beside Him so God has no sons and the Trinity is a false doctrine that says God is One in Three. *Moses said "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord."* (Deuteronomy 6:4) ...Moses doesn't say that God is One in Three! Jesus said "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29). And the prophet Muhammad said "And your God is One God: There is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163) Moses, Jesus and Muhammad did not say that God was One in Three!** "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent"(Numbers 23:19 & 20)...God is not a man so human beings are neither His children nor His sons! Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me....None is like God so human beings are not the sons of God for God is not like human beings! Quran chapter 112, :� In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad), He is God, the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone�. *Edited* Abrah, this type of post will not be allowed. You will not be warned again. Failure to comply with the Guidelines will result in you being banned from this Forum.*** Edited by Mishmish
	God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

Alibaba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 19 April 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 134	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:38pm
	AbRah, Abby, etc.: you are quoting from the website George referred to - in fact, complete with underlinings. Please, try to think for yourself if you aren't too far gone duck. Why are you trying to use character assasination against George - he seems like a very nice chap to me, and quite knowledgeable as well. Can't you engage in debate like a gentleman?

Angela Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:41pm
	George, Don't worry. AbRah is resorting to personal insults and attacks because he's upset his arguements are getting picked apart so easily. I know God loves all his children. Every last one. Even if he's disappointed in us when we sin. Jesus taught love and kindness and respect, no matter what religion you claim as your own. AbRah, has obviously missed these most important teachings. And AbRah, *Edited* Judgement belongs to God only, you can't tell anyone what God will decide as their fate, for only he knows their truest intentions. Edited by Mishmish

AbRah2006 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 13 May 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 354	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:45pm
	Patty's statement: And that is how it is with "tree" and "cross" -- the exact same object, two different words used to describe it. Historically, it was a tree made into a cross ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ *Edited* What is a tree? Perennial woody plant with a single main stem (the trunk, or bole) from which branches and twigs extend to form a characteristic crown of foliage. In general, a tree differs from a shrub in that it has a single trunk, it reaches a greater height at maturity, it branches at a greater distance from the ground, and it increases in size by producing new branches and expanding in girth while a shrub often produces new shoots from ground level. Trees fall into three major divisions: angiosperms, gymnosperms, and pteridophytes. Angiosperms are the most common type, where seeds carried in various fruits are the agents of reproduction. Trees and shrubs may be deciduous, with broad leaves that are shed at the end of the growing season, or evergreen (see conifer), with needlelike or scalelike leaves that are shed at intervals of between 2 and 10 years, thus maintaining green foliage at all seasons. Trees are identified both by the characteristic color and shape of the leaf and by their overall appearance, e.g., the degree and angle of branching, the shape of the crown, and the texture of the bark. Their age can be determined from a count of the annual rings, which represent the diameter growth of a tree each year. Besides their enormous importance in providing oxygen and moisture for the atmosphere and removing harmful carbon dioxide, trees are an important source of food, of wood, and of numerous products (e.g., resins, rubber, quinine, turpentine, and cellulose for the manufacture of paper and various synthetic materials) derived from their wood, bark, leaves, and fruits. What about the cross? The cross does not has the characteristics of a tree so the cross is not a tree! Patty please go to your doctor to check your brain and mind! And please check your five senses too ! Edited by Mishmish
	God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

Alibaba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 19 April 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 134	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 2:02pm
	Abrah, you really need to get back on your medication. You are not debating, you are screaming and using provocative language. Do you think that this in any way deminishes in people's eyes the faith you claim to defend?