no compulsion - the latest......

Clever Fredi,

Now let us take somethingelse, from your own slogan:

"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

1. Who is 'he' with a small 'h'?

2. Why did he make him a sin for us when he could have made made him into something better?

3. Did he not have any other better way to get rid of sin, which has not abated or disappeared at all from the world?

3. Read from here: "for us, who knew no sin"  Yeah, we know no sin.

4. How can we be made the righteousness of God in God and then in him?

5. Who said all that?

Thanks fredi. I am ready to receive your spirit.

Yes, you are right. I should discuss that as a separate topic.

fredifreeloader wrote: herjihad - it is malaysia, i should have specified this.  i am actually in scotland, so it will be up to canadians and americans to decide what they want.  i would utterly oppose any hint of sharia law being implemented in any way here

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My answer:

Islamic laws promote social justice. Please compare Islamic laws with your western secular laws regarding business :

Islamic Laws Regarding Business

Islam has permitted and in fact encouraged business. The Quran states:

"Allah has made business lawful for you" (2 : 275).

The early Muslims were not only engaged in trade but they went to distant lands in connection with business. Islam in fact reached East and West Africa, East Asia through the business people.

Islam has given detail laws of business. Islam has not permitted selling and purchasing of goods which are prohibited in Islamic law. The Prophet of Islam has said:

"When Allah prohibits a thing He prohibits (giving and receiving) the price of it as well." (reported in the books of tradition of Ahmad and Abu Daud)

Islam has also prohibited any kind of transaction involving uncertainty (Garar) as this could lead to quarrel or litigation. The Prophet of Islam has forbidden transaction involving unspecified quantity, acceptance of money for fish in the river or bird in the air as there is element of uncertainty. Similarly the Prophet of Islam has prohibited sale of fruit till they are ripened. (Chapter on Transactions involving uncertainty Garar in the book of tradition of Muslim).

However; if the element of uncertainty is very small, the transactions are permissible. For example, it is permissible to sell root vegetables while they are still on the ground. It is primarily because of the element of perishability of the harvested commodity that will result in loss to the former.

Freedom of trade and operation of market forces are allowed in Islam subject to the limits set by Shari'ah. Islam, however, condemns hoarding to make high profit at the cost of public interest. Islam does not allow making profit by withholding the commodity from the market so that it becomes scarce. The Prophet of Islam has said,

"If any one withholds goods until the price rises he is a sinner" (Tradition of Muslim).

"The withholding of grain for 40 days out of a desire of high price is prohibited in Islam" (Tradition of Ahmad, Hakim etc).

Islam, however; allows normal trade - buying and selling of goods again and again at a reasonable profit.

Islamic law has prescribed measures to prevent manipulation of market, exploitation of seller or buyer and fraud. The prophet of Islam prohibited people from going out of town to buy -merchandise which was on its way to city market. The reason for this prohibition is that the market place, where the forces of demand and supply determine prices, is the best place for trading transactions. In the situation of buying on way to market, the seller may not know the real market price and he may be deprived of legitimate price.

Islam prohibits fraud in business dealings. The Prophet (Sm) has said:

"It is not permissible to sell an article without making everything clear nor is it permissible for anyone who knows (about its defects) to refrain from mentioning them" (Baihaqi).

The Prophet of Islam has also said:

"Sell the good and bad separately. He who deceives is not of us" (Muslim, Ahmad).

The sin of fraud is greater if the seller supports it by swearing falsely. The Prophet has said,

"Swearing produces ready sale but blots out blessing" (Bukhari).

In the same manner deceiving others by withholding full measure is also prohibited. The Qur�an has emphasized the giving of full measure. It says,

"And give full measure and (full) weight in justice" (6:1 52).

Islam has prohibited business transactions on interest. The Quran is explicit about it and says,

"Allah- has permitted for you trade and prohibited interest"
(2 : 275).

In the Muslim world, in the last decade a chain of Islamic Banks has come up to avoid interest in trade.

Islam has permitted and encouraged business subject to aforesaid principles and restrictions. If these principles are followed, the economy will be greatly purified from injurious practices.

Please visit http://www.jamaat.org/islam/sources.html to know more about Islamic social laws

Alibaba wrote: I see Abrah2006 lives in the United States, and interestingly condemns western judicial systems in favor of the Islamic law courts.  Well, Arbrah, I suppose you noted that the Muslim terrorist, Moussaoui (or however his name is spelled) was not given the axe by an American jury of westerners - which seems to be a pretty big break for somebody who has said that his greatest wish is to kill Americans. Perhaps  you'd do better in Iran, where the judicial system is based on Muslim laws.  You seem to hate everything western - my goodness, why are you  living there? Some thoughts on Moussaoui: http://blog.oneamericacommittee.com/tag/Moussaui

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Was it wrong for the Vietnamese people to kill Americans who invaded Vietnam and massacred millions of innocent Vietnamese people during the Vietnamese War? Have you forgotten how the American troops raped and massacred innocent Vietnamese babies, children,women, elderly people etc during the My Lai Massacre?

Was it wrong for the Korean people to kill Americans who invaded Korea and massacred millions of innocent Korean babies, children, women, elderly people etc during the Korean War?

Is it wrong for the Iraqi people to kill Americans who are invading and plundering Iraq? Is it right for those American troops to torture, rape and murder innocent Iraqi babies, children, women, elderly people etc in Iraq....Don't try to fool me by saying that Bush is liberating Iraq...Bush lie so much so that he and his cronies may invade Iraq...Where are the non-existent WMDs? Nowhere! Hitler used to say that he invaded Europe to liberate Europe! Bush and his allies even imposed economy sanctions onto Iraq that starved millions of Iraqi babies to death!

Is it wrong for the Afghan people to kill Americans who are invading and plundering Afghanistan? Is it right for those American troops to torture, rape and murder innocent Afghan babies, children, women, elderly people etc in Afghanistan?....Don't try to fool me by saying that Bush is liberating Afghanistan...The US forces bomb and bombarded civilian targets killing innocent civilians who don't even know where New York is. Hitler used to say that he invaded Europe to liberate Europe and so does Bush!

I quote your words ' his greatest wish is to kill Americans.'  His wish does not reflect the teachings of Islam for Islam forbids terrorism!

With regard to the Dhimmis (Non-Muslims living under Muslim protection), Islam ordered that they must be treated justly. It gave them rights and imposed duties on them. It gave them security in the Muslim world, and imposed blood-money and expiation for an act of killing committed against anyone among them. Allah says:

"If he belonged to a people with whom you have a treaty of mutual alliance, blood-money shall be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed" (4:92)

Furthermore, in conformity with the saying of the Prophet (peace be on him), Islam prohibits the slaying of a Dhimmi living in the Muslim world.

"Whoever kills a person under the contract of protection shall never smell the scent of Paradise" (Ibn Majah)

Moreover, Islam does not forbid its followers from being charitable towards those who do not fight them or expel them from their homes. Allah says in the Qur'an:

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loves those who are just" (60:8)

And:

"And let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do" (5:8)

Islam, a religion of mercy, does not permit terrorism. In the Quran, God has said:
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

The Prophet Muhammad used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children, and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.} And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.} 

The Prophet Muhammad  once listed murder as the second of the major sins, and he even warned that on the Day of Judgment, {The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed.}

Allah has prohibited Muslims from committing mischief. Allah says in the Qur'an:"And seek not occasions for mischief in the land: for Allah loves not those who do mischief" (Quran 28:77)

In combating terrorism and protecting society against its evil consequences, Islam is a trail-blazer. Through clear-cut limitations that must not be trespassed, Islam urges the protection of human life, honour, property, religion and intellect. Allah says in the Qur'an: