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no compulsion - the latest......
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AbRah2006 View Drop Down
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Joined: 13 May 2006
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Points: 354 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AbRah2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2006 at 7:51am
Originally posted by fredifreeloader fredifreeloader wrote:

Originally posted by fredifreeloader fredifreeloader wrote:

Originally posted by AbRah2006 AbRah2006 wrote:

Originally posted by fredifreeloader fredifreeloader wrote:

once again, abrah, in your despair at not being able to answer my clear questions based on the pact of umar, you continue to bray away about the holy scriptures of God in your ignorance, bringing up issues that have already been dealt with, at least partly, which have nothing to do with the matter in hand.  perhaps you are the one who needs to visit your local islamic centre, in order to find the answers.  understand this: raising questions about islam is not to degrade islam.  avoiding those questions is to degrade islam, assuming it is islam you are here to represent, and not the Christ-rejecting world, already earmarked by God for total destruction

there is however one point of interest in your useless post - why were they told to bow down to adam?

The non-Muslims agreed with Muslim's terms by accepting them so you Fredi have no right to question the agreement agreed by the non-Muslims and Muslims !

Fredifreeloader said: perhaps you could inform me, abrah, as to what would have happened to them if they had not agreed to the terms - you are, after all, the expert here

Fredifreeloader said: so you are still unable to give me the required information, abrah.---- claiming to know about mosaic law counts for nothing when you are being asked about islamic law

 

My response: Lets me define an agreement according to dictionary Dictionary.com

a�gree�ment   (noun)

  1. The act of agreeing.
  2. Harmony of opinion; accord.
  3. An arrangement between parties regarding a course of action; a covenant.
  4. Law.
    1. A properly executed and legally binding contract.
    2. The writing or document embodying this contract.

When the non-Muslims and Muslims made an agreement that means they had fulfilled the conditions above so Fredifreeloader you are wrong for making wild allegation against the non-Muslims and Muslims.

I quote your statement: 'perhaps you could inform me, abrah, as to what would have happened to them if they had not agreed to the terms '

My response: Both the Muslims and non-Muslims agreed with the agreement and the rest is history! I am sorry for disappointing you  .....Your bait is very cheap and I don't take cheap bait



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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BMZ View Drop Down
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Points: 1852 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2006 at 8:26am

Fredi,

The Jews followed their Jewish Sharia and look what happened to Jesus? Finally the Jew Sharia Chief and his deputies had it their way!

Actually Fredi, the Islamic Sharia is the same as the Jewish Sharia but a bit kinder, far more kinder than the Sharia of YHVH and Joshua.



Edited by bmzsp
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fredifreeloader View Drop Down
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Points: 456 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredifreeloader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2006 at 12:51pm
yes abrah, thank you for that.  but i already knew what an agreement is.  now i want to know the consequences of not agreeing to it.  thank you in anticipation
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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fredifreeloader View Drop Down
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Points: 456 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredifreeloader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2006 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Mishmish Mishmish wrote:

The new French law bans religious apparel and signs that "conspicuously show" a student's religious affiliation. Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses would also be banned, but the law is aimed at removing Islamic head scarves from classrooms.no mish, manifestations of religion were banned from french schools long before the headscarf issue came up 

Christian women who pray or prophesize, as all Christians are to prophesize and bear witness at all times, wouldn't that be all the time. Otherwise a woman uncovered must deny her religion.where does the bible say christians are to prophesy all the time?

Women aren't even supposed to talk or ask a question in church... That's not men taking the lead, that's men taking complete and total control.no, it is submitting to the will of God, a concept which should not be alien to muslims, i wouldnt have thought

 As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).note that it says they fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, which does not necessarily mean the women are being disloyal or badly-behaved.  lets just hope you dont finish up with a paranoid husband

Disloyalty and ill-conduct would mean something very serious: lewdness.... why would it mean this?  there are plenty of other areas in which a person my be disloyal or behave badly, and not be lewd  The last resort is a symbolic beating.

Fred, we talked about the angels bowing to Adam before. Because Allah created Adam to be viceregent of the earth and gave him knowledge and free will which the angels and Jinn did not have. Humans were created superior, but most of all because Allah(SWT) ordered them to.hmmm.....

The inheritance laws were not off subject as someone brought them up in the earlier post, pointing out that Muslim women only received half of the portion of men. My point was that at least they receive half. Since Jesus did not bring any new inheritance laws, and he ststed he was here to fulfill the old laws, then I would say that these laws mentioned in Numbers are still valid. well ive been over all this already.  Jesus fulfilled the law, in that he perfectly fulfilled it in his personal life, but also in that he completed it, thereby freeing us from it (we could never obey it anyway, as if you transgress in just one point of the law, you are guilty of all)

I appreciate your post Patty, yet the orders for women to remain quiet in church and show slave-like obedience to their husbands this is  nonsense.  husbands, for instance, are clearly told how to love their wives - ephesians 5: 25 -"even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself (up) for it" - the life of a husband is a sacrificial life, for his wifeare in the New Testament, after Jesus.
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Points: 1694 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2006 at 1:34pm

Fred wrote:

"this is  nonsense.  husbands, for instance, are clearly told how to love their wives - ephesians 5: 25 -"even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself (up) for it" - the life of a husband is a sacrificial life, for his wife"

Fred, I am quoting from your scriptures, the New Testament. If it is nonsense, it is not my fault....
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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fredifreeloader View Drop Down
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Points: 456 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredifreeloader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2006 at 1:42pm
mish - please give the references for slave-like obedience, and for complete and total control
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Fred, what does prophesying in the Bible mean? Do all Christians have the gift of telling the future? Or are all Christians to prophesy and bear witness?
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Points: 1694 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 June 2006 at 2:17pm

"mish - please give the references for slave-like obedience, and for complete and total control"

Fred: It doesn't get any clearer than these:

I Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.  12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.  13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.  14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. {Here it is not even Adam's fault that he sinned, it is all Eve}

I Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.  23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.  24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

I Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

I Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.  35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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