bodily harm

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   Assalamualaikum to everyone here.
I have recently written a post (about 10 seconds ago) on addiction and my thoughts on this subject.  My thoughts on bodily harm have sprung up in the same manner.
I am aware that suicide and cutting are haram but those are extremes in my mind and fairly obvious.  If you don't mind I would like to share an anecdote with everyone to start off my thought.
I was walking to class today and my knee was bothering me and I knew exactly why.  I wrestled all throughout high school on the team, and I would get banged up like most people, but this year it was a little worse.  I felt a slight crack in my knee during practice and it did not hurt and I knew it wasn't serious.  The next day though my knee was sore, as it was the rest of the season and even until today.  It is not unbearable, don't get me wrong, but I do think it is obvious that my choice to wrestle caused me bodily harm.  It was not an accident, any person could pretty much tell that when you join a contact sport, you are putting your body in harms way.
There are many other stories like this.  One concerns my wrists which are in horrible shape from gymnstics.  Another concerns my brother who lifts weights recreationally to stay in shape, and how his elbow was hyper-extended.  Nothing serious, just annoying.  
All of these stories end in chronic pain caused by ourselves and I find it hard to believe that our ability and passion for a sport or physical activity can be classified as haram.
Also as a sidenote:  what is the position of most people on tattoos?  I personally don't have them but I do think that some of them can be quite beautiful despite the pain inflicted on the person who has it.  But then again, my mom has beautiful earings that probably hurt when she got her ears pierced...

Edited by brother

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brother Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 31 August 2006 Status: Offline Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote brother Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: bodily harm Posted: 31 August 2006 at 5:23pm
	Assalamualaikum to everyone here. I have recently written a post (about 10 seconds ago) on addiction and my thoughts on this subject. My thoughts on bodily harm have sprung up in the same manner. I am aware that suicide and cutting are haram but those are extremes in my mind and fairly obvious. If you don't mind I would like to share an anecdote with everyone to start off my thought. I was walking to class today and my knee was bothering me and I knew exactly why. I wrestled all throughout high school on the team, and I would get banged up like most people, but this year it was a little worse. I felt a slight crack in my knee during practice and it did not hurt and I knew it wasn't serious. The next day though my knee was sore, as it was the rest of the season and even until today. It is not unbearable, don't get me wrong, but I do think it is obvious that my choice to wrestle caused me bodily harm. It was not an accident, any person could pretty much tell that when you join a contact sport, you are putting your body in harms way. There are many other stories like this. One concerns my wrists which are in horrible shape from gymnstics. Another concerns my brother who lifts weights recreationally to stay in shape, and how his elbow was hyper-extended. Nothing serious, just annoying. All of these stories end in chronic pain caused by ourselves and I find it hard to believe that our ability and passion for a sport or physical activity can be classified as haram. Also as a sidenote: what is the position of most people on tattoos? I personally don't have them but I do think that some of them can be quite beautiful despite the pain inflicted on the person who has it. But then again, my mom has beautiful earings that probably hurt when she got her ears pierced... Edited by brother

Hayfa Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hayfa Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 September 2006 at 9:42am
	Well a very interesting thought.. I think that anything done in excess that detracts from fulfilling one's life as a Moslem is probably harmful. It has been shown that exercise is needed for people who live a sedentary life. The harmful effects of that are well documented. People who do more manual labor, such as farming, cleaning etc do not have the same issues. Combine with the high fat diet of many people in the west and the health issues of heart disease, high cholesterol, diabetes, are far more dangerous and harmful then most things. People get chronic pain from many sources. Many people have arthritis which depending upon which one you have, can be horribly debilitating. Some are caused by exercise related but most are just genetic or work related, arthritis in hands for people who type a lot. In most cases some exercise is better to keep moving the joints. Inactivity makes things deteriorate faster. The body as we age, breaks down. Plus you can hurt your self getting out of the tub. (I know a person who wrecked their knee badly doing this) It is life. Most Americans have back trouble. This could be adverted with simple abdominal and back exercises. They used to tell people to just �rest� to fix it and now they do not. Thay often makes it worse. Weight lifting is very important to keep joints strong and bones. It is one of the best preventative measures for osteoporosis for women. If someone gets injured it can often be fixed by the right combination of physical therapy, surgery, and medicine. That is why now you�ll see a lot more older people at the gym. Especially older women. Better that then a broken hip. And I think if you polled people. MOST people have various aches and pains. I�d rather exercise and have a few aches and pains then get diabetes and have to have my legs amputated. Of course moderation is the key. One does not need to run a marathon to be healthy. Science is teaching us a lot about these systems. Allah has given us this knowledge. It is up to us to use it. Tattoos: well I don�t think they are Islamically alright. I could be wrong. In my opinion 99.9 percent are ugly. The human body beautiful and a work of art in of itself. Of course best seen in private...lol
	When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi

IslamicGirl Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 13 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 120	Post Options Post Reply Quote IslamicGirl Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 September 2006 at 5:07am
	(PS>My response to your post = in green) Salam Once Again brother and All! I am aware that suicide and cutting are haram but those are extremes in my mind and fairly obvious. If you don't mind I would like to share an anecdote with everyone to start off my thought. I was walking to class today and my knee was bothering me and I knew exactly why. I wrestled all throughout high school on the team, and I would get banged up like most people, but this year it was a little worse. I felt a slight crack in my knee during practice and it did not hurt and I knew it wasn't serious. The next day though my knee was sore, as it was the rest of the season and even until today. It is not unbearable, don't get me wrong, but I do think it is obvious that my choice to wrestle caused me bodily harm. It was not an accident, any person could pretty much tell that when you join a contact sport, you are putting your body in harms way. - Was it more you intention to do your body damage purposely or was it more to keep fit - for your health (and maybe socially active)?? There are a lot of things you can do on purpose to injur yourself either consciousley (intentionally or not) or unconsciousley (intentionally or not too). This is my example of an unconscious/untentional bodily harm, on the news a few years ago: a girl drunk too much water and she got water in her lungs and died. This is a contradiction to the rule where in the health world, keeping hydrated is good for you. She obviousley exceeded the limits and did her body harm un-intentionally. In Islam it is not haram to drink water, but excess of anything is haram, you should see if it does you more bad than good, it's haram, hence, excess. Alternatively - (unconsciousley drinking something good for your body of alcoholic content), if one drinks some cough mixture to settle a cold, it contains alcohol... I don't see that as haram, this is because your intention is to make your illness better, not to get drunk - therefore, you are using the good it does not bad. Also as a sidenote: what is the position of most people on tattoos? I personally don't have them but I do think that some of them can be quite beautiful despite the pain inflicted on the person who has it. But then again, my mom has beautiful earings that probably hurt when she got her ears pierced... With earings I think it is not haram, because: it's generally done under very hygeine conditions - in most countries. There is very low contamination risks, when you look at it from this point of view, how many times have you cut your finger with a knife on accident??? that's a very closely related thing to peircing ones' ear- probabely cutting with a knife has more hygeine issues as peircing ears etc..., as appose to inking your body deep within the skin tissue layers etc... Obviousley, I personally don't agree to tattooing ones body, as you can get many diseases (for one eg. ink-poisioning). Taking into consideration, Islam is a religion for all of humanity, not only Muslims. So the Quran is sent by Allah (Lord) for all of mankind as a prevention rather than a cure. When a baby is born into the earth, in Islam each and every soul is a blessing, and their soul is pure, and as muslims are suppose to believe - every soul is born Muslim - therefore the rules Allah sent in the Holy Quran is a message aimed for all humans to protect ones' body/soul good (for all of humankind equally) for this world and in the next. One site I found easy to understand of the dangers of tattooing, can convince any Muslim or non-Muslim that it has many dangers (as I mentioned above). If you'd like to find out more on the negative, potential side-effects tattooing oneself has.. it clearly states the dangers on the following site - I reccommend you read it & judge for yourself if it's bodily harm or not: The subject is: Are You Ready for a Tattoo! SOURCE: http://www.waleg.com/archives/000925.html Also, another interesting reading I came accross: SOURCE: http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?s=7a158cb796 1ad9f6c5c010d7dd29e43b&t=1043 Praise be to Allaah. Please note that tattoos on the body are haraam, because it was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the one who makes hair extensions and the one who asks for that to be done, and the one who does tattoos and the one who asks for them to be done. If a Muslim does that when he is unaware of the fact that it is haraam, or that is done to him when he is a child, then he has to remove it when he comes to know that it is haraam. But if removing it is too difficult or will cause him harm, then it is sufficient for him to repent and seek forgiveness, and it will not matter if he leaves the mark on his body. With regard to having a gold tooth fitted when it is not needed, this is not permissible, because gold is haraam for men, unless there it is necessary for some valid reason. I understood from your question that you did that for the purpose of beautification, so you have to remove it. You can have it replaced with something else that is made of permissible material, other than gold. May Allaah help us all to do that which pleases Him. Wa�l-salaamu �alaykum wa rahmat-Allaah wa barakaatuhu. Shaykh �Abd-Alazeez ibn Baaz I am probabely not the best at explaining things, but hey! i'm just a learner like you.. please give me some of your feedback soon - looking forward to your replies!
	Islamic Girl

brother Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 31 August 2006 Status: Offline Points: 5	Post Options Post Reply Quote brother Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 September 2006 at 7:24pm
	I dont think i captures exactly what i wanted to ask with my example so i might have to be a little more abstract and im sorry. what if there is a situation in which you want to try something or you believe that the best way to do something involves harming ones body or putting it in harms way?

IslamicGirl Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 13 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 120	Post Options Post Reply Quote IslamicGirl Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 September 2006 at 10:55pm
	Salam! brother, I think that's why we are sent on earth as human beings and not as prophets & saints... Think, Allah made no individual perfect, except the Prophet (Peace be Upon Him). That's why Allah is Merciful (as explained in the Holy Quran), that's why Islam gives us a chance to ask Allah for forgiveness for our sins.. Why is this all mentioned in the Quran, about asking for mercy etc.. (because my point in the 1st paragraph of this message). Finally, all humans do learn good and bad from others' mistakes and good deeds.. if these positive/negative actions weren't learnt, than how would we know that it's good/bad in he first place.. if we didn't have something to compare our actions to...?
	Islamic Girl

Angel Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Status: Offline Points: 6641	Post Options Post Reply Quote Angel Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 September 2006 at 6:27am
	what if there is a situation in which you want to try something or you believe that the best way to do something involves harming ones body or putting it in harms way? I know the body can be very agile, just watch the guys in Cirque de solei but they have been doing that since they were babies. My question is why would you put your body in harms way?, yes I know there are many dare devils out there doing bungie jumping, parachuting etc Also, before you even try something new, I would prepare the body slowly, never do something that you haven't done before or in such a long time. No one does full yoga poses in the begining
	~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

IslamicGirl Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 13 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 120	Post Options Post Reply Quote IslamicGirl Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 September 2006 at 4:42am
	Angel.. No one does full yoga poses in the begining Your statement as above.. ^^^ I found I could naturally do the lotus- comfortabley (it was like a natural born gift in me)..
	Islamic Girl

ZubairH Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 11 February 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33	Post Options Post Reply Quote ZubairH Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 October 2006 at 5:30pm
	I don't think you did it for the purpose of harming yourself. You were testing your strength and endurance. It was not your intention to hurt yourself. That was a side effect.