Islam and Terrorism

Andalus

Just a couple of freiendly (really) observations. First regarding 9/11 revisionism. You marginalize yourself; think of those who harp on who shot JFK. The world has moved on. Like people who came out of the Oliver Stone movie JFK who said to one another. "I didn't know the CIA killed Kennedy? Who's ready for pizza?"

Secondly, my discussion about the value and dangers of reconquista is entirely coherent. I will do you the service of answering your points. I don't much do this with Hanan, for reasons that should be apparent to anyone who reads his (her posts).

See my next post...

PS

The September 11, 2006, Issue of The New Yorker has several excellent articles on Islam today. I especially recommend: THE MODERATE MARTYR (A radical peaceful vision of Islam) by George Packer.

The article discusses the life and thoughts of Mahamoud Muhammad Taha, executed 1985 in Sudan for sedition and apostasy. His book "The Koran, Mustapha Mahmoud, and Modern Understanding" was published in 1970.

In a nutshell, I think he believed the original, pure form of Islam was created during the Mecca period. I am not certain what he thinks exactly of the Medinah period, but he seems to believe it is subordinate in that it involved more worldly and practacal matters at hand during the era of military expansion.

Shery - You are one of the posters here worth discussing things with.

You wrote: "May you clarify for me that more please you are saying that ( belfour agreement ) was about to make sure that the muslims wouldnt wipe Israel from the map?

My response: I said nothing about the Balfour Argreement. I talk about Muslim efforts NOW and in the near future to attack Israel. My exact point is this: These attempts may lead to destruction such as was seen in Europe more then half a century ago. The Hezbollah cross/border attack led to a great deal of destruction. I am simply saying that sort of thing may be just the beginning. I recommend Hezbollah stay on its side of the border next time.

I also made the point Jihadists do not understand the potential destruction to them that could occur if these efforts continue; many of their other recent predictions have been wrong. If they are wrong about a larger war, then ethnic cleansing the like of WWII may befall the Muslims in the area.

You also wrote: "...the only place [Jews] had freedom to live peacefully was Spain when there was muslims there...and Jewish been chased by vatican many years...] That is true. The Spanish Christians expelled the Jews and the Muslims, if I am not mistaken, about 400 years ago. Simply put, that is of no relevance today.

Simply put, Spain is a representative democracy, and no longer bows to Monarch or Vatican, though Muslim commuter train bombers have been effective.

You also wrote: "I hope you remember ( marcus ) who did the marcuxism...his father convert to chistianity to be able to find a job and tht cause him depression and he become athiest..." The Christians drove Karl Marx Mad and the result was decades of "Socialism In Practice" and the deaths of Millions. Actually, I sort of like that discussion. After all, Adolph Hitler often refered to JEWISH Bolshevism.

However, you should also be aware of those who studied Jewish Emancipation from the Rabbis in those days. It is said those 'emancipated' Jews became either Communists, Socialists, or Zionists. No that many went crazy because their father's became Episcopaleans.

You also wrote: "Why would after the holocaust and years of torture and genocide for jewish by christians...
Why did England and France care to do a country for jewish?" Judging from your narrative, I would say it was to get rid of them, and establish a military outpost in the Middle East; though I do not know any of this beyond what you have told me.

You also wrote: "Lets get back to the crusades (holy war) lets say if (salah el dine didnt win this war) would the christians gave jerusalem to jewish cuz its their promise land? "

No. In fact the crusaders were rather harsh on the Jews they encountered on the way to the Levant. The crusaders were not necessarily nice people. However, you must understand the Levant was Christian before it was Muslim. The Crusades were a classc counter attack, and were, off and on successful for a long time. One possible result is that Islam was stopped at both Vienna and Tours. Perhaps European and Christian civilization were saved by the Crusades? I don't know.

You also wrote: "Here my point (Israeli) isnt but a tool and puppet in USA , europe hand to reach their aims in middle east..) My point is EYE DON'T CARE. I am simply saying Muslim attacks on Israel may end up with a Muslim Frei Levant, if they are not carefull.

You also wrote: "...let you know that no one wants to wipe israel from the map." Except, perhaps that Iranian guy in the bad liesure suite. He seems willing to sacrifice half Iran to do just that. Or perhaps you have not been reading the news.

You also wrote: "YOu are the one who wants to genocide islam from the earth..." Sorry to inform you of the following: Muslim American families are better educated and earn more money then other Americans. I think they can fend for themselves just fine......

You also wrote: "...we all know that when you will have the chance to holocaust them once more you wouldnt hesistate." I just love it whenever anyone says "WE ALL KNOW...." I gave that up in about sixth grade. You seem more educated then that and I propose you do the same.

You also wrote: "and the ( propaganda ) about that jewish are the one who rules the world is fake..." I can't believe it! A Muslim who rejects the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. And EYE thought the age of miracles had ended.

You also wrote: "NO one is ruling the world but christians." Please name the Christian who rules China, India, Japan, Singapore, Indonesia, Maylasia, and, well, Saudi Arabia.

You also wrote: "Correct me if I m wrong? [I just did] and forgive my poor english)" You English is just fine, and you seem to have actual intellectual potential. However, to further develop that potential you need to avoid LARGE and obviously false generalizations such as "No one is ruling the world but christians." It makes you seem shallow. I will explain.

In this generalization you make a big mistake in confusing hegemony with Imperialism. Great Britain ruled India for a long time because of Military Garisons. The United States does not rule India with such garisons. However, it DOES have great economic and cultural influence in the Subcontinent. For instance, I have lost track of how many Indians live in both the US and India.

My very own brother-in-law is Indian. He does not seem especially intimidated by the sixth fleet, however.







4)However, Laden was wrong about the Taliban, and his camps are gone.

Your comment: "OBL was trained by the CIA. That is a fact. Those camps are from an era that the CIA set up to fight the soviets."

My rebutal: You did not comment on my statement at all. My comments were A) jihaddists believe they can drive Israel in the sea during a comming war, and B)Jihadists do not have a good history at calculating such things.

Specifically, Laden believe his jihaddists could defeat invading American forces as had been done with the Soviets. He was wrong.

5)That Quida guy in Iraq was wrong about the Suni diaspora arriving to overwhelm the Shia. The Sunni humpty dumpty is gone for good.

You comment: "You are now babbling. I beg you to take hold of yourself and make a coherent point."

My rebutal: I refer you to the September 11, 2006, issue of The New Yorker, page 52, column three first full paragraph. It is an excerpt from "The Master Plan", and details various Islamic approaches to the jihad.

Bin laden become as a fairytale story ...

But all what I m sure of it and positive from it

that Bin laden is DEAD

and Muslims abilities wouldnt really be able to hit this 2 twins in USA

so I m fed up from your fake vidoes ( dont you have a better plots instead of keep showing the world some fake tapes ) about bin laden









In this section I quote ".....Zarqawi explained that "if we succeed in dragging [the Shia] into the arena of sectarian war it will become possible to awaken the inattentive Sunnis as they feel imminent danger."

A few paragraphs later "Zarqawi did not heed Al Qaeda's requests [stop beheadings etc as bad PR]. As the Iraqi jihad fell into barbarism, Al Quaeda's leaders began advising their followers to go to Sudan or Kashmir, where the chances of victory seemed more promising." In summary, Zarqawi's predicion for a Sunni victory in Iraq is wrong.



I m sorry if I sometimes reply things off topic

But what I would like to add here

that No one is killing shia and sunni but americans

and Maybe later on the american successed in their plain to make a civil wars but most of the bombs in mosque done by americans agents ... and shia and sunni knows that ...



6)That Hezzi guy in Lebanon did not expect the Israeli "overreaction". And that Iranian guy in the bad liesure suit claims he will only lose half Iran to eliminate Israel.

Your comment: And the neocon dribble trickles.....and trickles......and trickles...

My rebutal: Apparently, no one on the Hezbollah side expected Israel to do as much damage as it did. Otherwise why would they all call it a "massive overreaction". I have read reports that the Hezzi guy his very own self has said as much openly. Accordingly, the Hezbollah puppet/Iranian predictions were wrong.





the hezzi guy you are talking about is ( SAYED hasan nasrollah ) and I think Israel didnt expect this kind of resistance and even your agent in lebanon changed a lot from their agenda when Israeli couldnt wipe hezbollah from the map

and no matter how much destruction you have done to the middle east , the matter is the more you will plot against us , the more resistance will resist you and victory will not be for who do transgression on innocent people and destroy their homes and infrastructures in the name of democracy

and very obvious that USA and israel agree to cease fire cuz they knew that their traitors inside lebanon as (sg ) and many more would fight hizbullah and put pressure on them

and they got many promises from england and USA if they successed to put pressure on hezbollah to disarms them .



As for the guy in the bad liesure suit? He predicts the cost of eliminating Israel would be destruction of half Iran. My point is, what if he is wrong as well? How much MORE then half of Iran might be lost to the Muslim world?

I think that the wrong one who is always interfer in other countries internal affairs , USA should mind their business instead of keep plotting to kill more muslims and to make the new middle east as Candeleeze rice claimed

I think That I like Ahmed nijad very much and I would pray for them to win over USA and inshallah thevictory will be for the one who deserve it

and I dont think even if you were on the right track that god would bless your bloody war against muslims

although you are not on the right track.

7) Your final comment "If your contributions continue to be incoherent rants without any real point, the thread will be considered for closure."

My rebutal: I will leave the gentle reader to judge who is more coherent in this small debate. However, this is Andalus's forum, and I consider his judgement of its worth as final.

Because I lack information about andalus I wuldnt make any comments but the sedition and the greed of the muslims leaders at this time did lead us for failure

and I think what happened in Andalus is happening now between arab countries and muslims with eachother

ejdavid wrote: Dear Andalus - ITEM BY ITEM REMARKS Format: Most quotes are statements made by Andalus. The others are mine. Some of mine were provided to Andalus earlier, and some of them are new, as indicated. 1) "Spain was Muslim for 700 years. Islam has as much a claim as Catholicism." A poor product of an antique imagination. Spain belongs to the people who live there. Your comment: "Who were Christian heretics ruled by despotic foriegners under CHurch pressure to conform." My rebutal: You mistake history for current events. Spain, like all states, go through many stages. You are not talking about the same subject, which is Spain today. Your original post as much as shouts, that a powerful enough Islamic State is entitled to conquer and rule modern Spain. I simply take issue with that. Further, in my next statement I offer peacefull ways to achieve the same result. 2)You may attempt conversion. You can try to get their votes for Sharia. It is even legal to outbreed them. But "ISLAM" has no more claim to rule the people then does the Vatican." Your comment: "incoherent diatribe". My rebutal: This is neither incoherent nor a diatribe. It is simply providing a peaceful method to achieve Sharia Law in Spain without reconquista. After all, you are the one telling us "Islam" has as much a right to rule Spain as does Catholicism. I simply agree, but point out IMHO that neither one has any right to rule that does not include the options I listed. 3)Reconquista? I think the ashes and mass relocations of post WWII Europe cured Europe. Iran next? The results won't add up to Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Stalingrad etc etc etc or the ossuaries of WWI. But think Southern Lebanon times, well one or two hundred? Pick a number. Mass relocations? Jihaddists believe those will all be Jews...." Your comment: "More incoherent diatribe. Please make a direct point." My rebutal: Europe has been traumatized by colonizations, recolonizations, and reconquista upon reconquista for millenia. The last one was so severe the people finally gave up on the idea, and accepted the borders they now have. Europe has had peace and prosperity for continuing generations as a result. My direct point is the Middle East may be heading for exactly the same sort of experience. Carnage and destruction so entirely severe the people will finally give up trying to remove Israel. 4)However, Laden was wrong about the Taliban, and his camps are gone. Your comment: "OBL was trained by the CIA. That is a fact. Those camps are from an era that the CIA set up to fight the soviets." My rebutal: You did not comment on my statement at all. My comments were A) jihaddists believe they can drive Israel in the sea during a comming war, and B)Jihadists do not have a good history at calculating such things. Specifically, Laden believe his jihaddists could defeat invading American forces as had been done with the Soviets. He was wrong. 5)That Quida guy in Iraq was wrong about the Suni diaspora arriving to overwhelm the Shia. The Sunni humpty dumpty is gone for good. You comment: "You are now babbling. I beg you to take hold of yourself and make a coherent point." My rebutal: I refer you to the September 11, 2006, issue of The New Yorker, page 52, column three first full paragraph. It is an excerpt from "The Master Plan", and details various Islamic approaches to the jihad. In this section I quote ".....Zarqawi explained that "if we succeed in dragging [the Shia] into the arena of sectarian war it will become possible to awaken the inattentive Sunnis as they feel imminent danger." A few paragraphs later "Zarqawi did not heed Al Qaeda's requests [stop beheadings etc as bad PR]. As the Iraqi jihad fell into barbarism, Al Quaeda's leaders began advising their followers to go to Sudan or Kashmir, where the chances of victory seemed more promising." In summary, Zarqawi's predicion for a Sunni victory in Iraq is wrong. 6)That Hezzi guy in Lebanon did not expect the Israeli "overreaction". And that Iranian guy in the bad liesure suit claims he will only lose half Iran to eliminate Israel. Your comment: And the neocon dribble trickles.....and trickles......and trickles... My rebutal: Apparently, no one on the Hezbollah side expected Israel to do as much damage as it did. Otherwise why would they all call it a "massive overreaction". I have read reports that the Hezzi guy his very own self has said as much openly. Accordingly, the Hezbollah puppet/Iranian predictions were wrong. As for the guy in the bad liesure suit? He predicts the cost of eliminating Israel would be destruction of half Iran. My point is, what if he is wrong as well? How much MORE then half of Iran might be lost to the Muslim world? 7) Your final comment "If your contributions continue to be incoherent rants without any real point, the thread will be considered for closure." My rebutal: I will leave the gentle reader to judge who is more coherent in this small debate. However, this is Andalus's forum, and I consider his judgement of its worth as final.

 

 

 

Thank you for your notes

and I do appreciate your answers

Yes I M muslims who do not believe in Zionist conspiracy

but I do in other conspiracy which is ( Crusades )

 

and YEs I do sometimes mistakes by generalizing

But I meant by christianity rules the world

That you dont have to occupied every country to rule them

but the most largest religion worldwide is chistianity

you may find Copts egypt are the minority in egypt about 10% of the population

But they are almost controlling the egyptian economics and have more rights than I do in egypt !

While they are still ywaning and complaning about transgression against them !

I Think you dont have to worry about muslims to be wiped by Israeli or americans , muslims inshallah will survive

I do believe so much that jewish could live with muslims peacefully if USA stop put their nose in middle east

and ABout crusades ( Bush did claim crusades against muslims )

and when the president of USA do not mean what he says ( that means he is not qualified to be president 2 times IN usa ) !

So he meant what he said

I always believe that Jewish been used as puppet

as some muslims who has amibitious used also , and at the end the one who been used always face failure as ( bin laden , saddam , jewish sometimes too )

they dont get all what they dream of , because their power is limited

Only when christians allow them to do that and this they would do it

PM sharon .. can you believe that a prime minister who has a long history in israel , israel do not mention nothing about him ?

can you believe that ? that indicate one thing

that he been killed and also , Israel do not want to discuss this matter

So they always try to come up with new events so they would makes you forget the old ones

like thrown a ( bone to a dog ) and run at the other side , while the dog is running after the dog

This is exaclty what they are doing to us ,, they always thrown the bone to let us run after it while in their agenda they run in the different way ....

anyhow deep inside I know that jewish are ambitious and when you find some1 amibitious you can always use his ambitious for your own interest

but the real enemy isnt jewish ( they defenitely hates muslims )

But many jewish dont mind to live with muslims ... and many jewish are so fine

as many christians are so fine as well

About china , malysia ect,,, that they are not controlled by christians

I do agree

But let me provide you with some facts

there s 2 area that CIA focus on them right now

Middle east and china

and lately from 3 years ago the numbers of the CIA agents did increased in china for some porpuse which I dont know what is it exaclty

You defenitely know that Cia are located in all their americans embassies world wide

this is the known CIA agents and defenitely theres unknown agents that you may deal with them and you dont know that they are agents and it may be from your own country and speak your own language

China from several years ago start to overwhlemed the market with their products which annoyed the 3 scorpions

I recommand you to read the new world order

and the 3scorpions and why they turn against china

and who is the 3 scorpions ( include the world bank) or something like that I dont recall the article but I will search for it and i will publish it here

So in this article you can read alot of how they tried to make a economic siege on europe and overwhelmed the market with chinese product which annoyed many countries which also begins a cold war against china

And you may find china now try to make allies with the countries that is against USA and europe

Also you would notice that Israel ( the one that everyone claims that control USA  which is not true )

also try to be allies with chinese and of course with russia cuz most of the israeli are russian !

Israel always try to collect the most information they can about USA and you defenitely heard about the Israeli spy who provided russia with a very sensitive information I dont recall his name maybe was ( pillard ) I dont remember let me also google on this story

My point is that jewish knows very well that if muslims are gone

again they will be the target , the target to be genocide from the map for real this time

 

According to what Ahmed Nijad said and about Bashar al asad speech

I believe it was a mistake

and those mistakes could be always in their history records

But let me guess what they have said those speechs

I think for syria , syrian been accused by lebanse for a long time that they are traitors and killers and syrian was very patient

and then I think that Bashar has the right thing in his opinion

He fed up from what lebanse saying about syrian so he simply replied back

maybe it was the right time and I agree with most what he said in his speech

But it was the right time or the right words for our arab leaders ( though he has said nothing but the truth )

But as a diplomatic person ( he should lie as all the diplomatics liars all over the world :)

About Ahmed Nijad

I think also it was a mistake to say those raugh words about wiping israel

If i were him I would threaten that  the consquence of the israeli policies with arab could lead to a bloody war that end up by loss for everyone

If israel wants to live in peace they shall not follow USA orders

and He did nt sound very diplomatic guy as well

AS bush and As those who are arrogant ...

But I give iran many excused too

They are under pressure from a long time ago been accused for being terrorist and bla bla

And also its not acceptable that the western countries and USA always trying to apply their views and their culture on us

So you get fed up and you may say anything that could be not in your side

But mistakes could happen .. I think NIjad recently become more wiser in his speeches than from 6 months ago ...

I hope I didnt confuse you with 1000 different issue in one post

if you have any questions or comments

please do not hesitate to ask me :)

Best regards we salam alikom