Fundamentals of organzed religion

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Well i will try my best to explain what i meant in the line that got attention from both of you brothers(i assume).

Holy Quran was revealed over 1400 years ago, Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala challenged the disbelievers in various parts. For instance,

[Shakir 11:13] Or, do they say: He has forged it. Say: Then bring ten forged chapters like it and call upon whom you can besides Allah, if you are truthful.
[Shakir 10:37-38] And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds. Or do they say: He has forged it? Say: Then bring a chapter like this and invite whom you can besides Allah, if you are truthful.
[Shakir 2:23-24] And if you are in doubt as to that which We have revealed to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it and call on your witnesses besides Allah if you are truthful. But if you do (it) not and never shall you do (it), then be on your guard against the fire of which men and stones are the fuel; it is prepared for the unbelievers.

Ever since the Holy Quran was revealed, no one has been able to produce a single chapter like that of Holy Quran which matches its beauty, eloquence, splendor, wise legislations and informations, true prophecy and many other perfect attributes. Note that smallest chapter of Holy Quran is only three verses and have ten words.

Holy Quran also foretold some of the events of the future among which was victory of the romans over the persians within three to nine years of thier defeat. [Shakir 30:2-4] The Romans are vanquished, In a near land, and they, after being vanquished, shall overcome, Within a few years. Allah's is the command before and after; and on that day the believers shall rejoice.

The word used for 'a few years' is bedd which in arabic is taken as time period between 3-9 years and history tells you that it was very hard to imagine that romans would be victorious again seeing the sort of defeat they took.

Hope you have bit of time to explore this website, http://www.jalyat.net/. This will sort of explain to you what is the connection between scientific advancement and authenticity of Holy Quran. Once you have read some material on this site then inshaAllah we will have further chat.

And please dont worry, no one gets offended when some one asks questions about Islam thats how you learn about reality of some thing. We are more than happy to explain in our limited capacity, hoping inshaAllah it will suffice.

Wassalam

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Hi S666, regarding producing likes of Holy Quran, it was a challenge as arabs of that time was master in language and poetry. They produced works which were sweet to hear and most elequent of speeches. It was a known factor about Sayyidina Muhammad sallallahu alaihe wassalam that he never had no formal schooling and was never heard of reciting poetry. Some thing so elequent coming from him was a miracle and sign in itself but those arabs still argued that he makes it himself. So Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala told those people that if you think that a person who is not even master on this language can forge some thing like this then you people whom the world considers master of your language produce some thing alike.

Which ofcourse they could not and there are still many arabic speaking non-muslim who could try but they dont. Now about poetry in other languages and rest of written stuff, why do you think no one claims it to be divine. May be because its not worth it and the writer knows it himslef.

Now there are many verses which mention earth, the two which you picked are very easy to understand if you read the ayah before and after it. The first one from Surah 78, its literal meaning is 'Have we not made earth as a bed' Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is mentioning His bounties and thats why it is mentioned like that. In second ayaah you mentioned, Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is mentioning formation of heavens and earth and its expansion in sense of vastness and putting plants and trees and other bounties. The theme then carries on with how Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala put mountain on this expanded earth to stop it swirling here and there.

I will try to find ayaat which literally mean expansion as in flat entity. But same thing you need to take ayaah before and after it to actually realize that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala is telling us in the sense of us finding our livelihood, that when we travel thats what we feel and thats it.

Another thing that muslim scholars came out with the concept of earth being round was not from this particular ayaah. It was from ayaat in Surah kahf, which mention a righteous leader traveling through land. Its the last story of that particular surah about Dhulqarnain thats what made them think that Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala mentions him going to furthest west and then furthest east without mentioning him having to come back. Thats what promted the thought of earth being a spere, it exact shape was concluded to be an egg due to the 'dhuhaha' used in couple of places in relation to earth.

About the sun and solar apex, you might be right and there is a chance you might be wrong. I have not got detailed knowledge of this particular fact. InshaAllah i will look into it. End of the day Holy Quran is not a book of science, its a book of signs. It gives the complete cycle of pregnancy, it gives complete process of cloud formation and many other thing about 1400 years ago. When these processes were not known to any human being. The concepts that can be derived out of a single or couple of verses could be left out and still it would not reduce its effectiveness.

Hope you dont take it as offense but if you really want to understand Holy Quran then you need to stop taking the verses from those sites which have only one intention. Neither am i saying that believe every thing a muslim says with your eyes closed. Read the explanation of Holy Quran thats how you would know what those ayaat really mean and in what circumstances and in what context they should be taken in.

wassalam

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

Hi S666, I think its ok to question as long as they are to gain better understanding. But main thing is that if you seriously seeking the knowledge and truth then you have to explore it yourself.

www.al-islam.org/quran has got three good translations but im not too much of a translation only person. www.tafheem.net is commentary by maulana mawdudi but you can also just read the meaning. I would prefer his work because he does not always write literal meaning but takes into consideration the context and what it means as a whole. But even if you only reading meaning and get stuck at some point, i will be more than happy to hear from you.

wassalam