Pope Benedict�s Remarks

Peacemaker, I�m sorry you feel that way. You don�t like my opinion that old Benny was not at fault therefore you say that I attack islam? I don�t attack and try my best to engage challenging discussion within your rules. My reply was second in this thread and it followed with some interesting postings, I though we were all getting along then you come along and put me on the 'naughty step' (Ref: Super Nanny, UK).

Unlike the rest of the none believers in the world, I actually read the Qur�an and I did intend to post some citations after a short study.

There are ample examples of violence found in the Qur�an.  I�ll name just three, others in the thread can add more.

First off, us unbeliever�s are not popular, as found in sura 9:5 which says, "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay those who join other gods with Allah wherever you find them; besiege them, seize them, lay in wait for them with every kind of ambush...".  I really hate how the Qur�an separates its followers from the non believers, why is this needed? Please help me understand this!

Sura 47:4 says, "When you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads, until ye have made a great slaughter among them...".  Sure, give me grief for taking this out of context, I still find it hard to believe a god would say this

In sura 5:33 the Qur'an orders those who fight Allah and his messenger to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off; or they can be expelled out of the land.  Ouch!

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The Pope quotes some emperor who called Muhammad evil and inhumane and so he�s attacking Islam? He didn�t say that he agreed with it! Regarding that quote, and for argument�s sake, let�s look at early life of Muhammad. Who was Asma and what dealings did Muhammad have with Meccan caravans? Is aking about Muhammad's life attacking Islam? I'm here to learn about your point of view.

Muslims continue to incorrectly downplay any emphasis on violence within the Qur'an, and insist that the Jihad, was only a means of defence. The claim that Muslims acted only in self defense is simply untrue. What were Muslims defending in North Africa, or Spain, France, India, Persia, Syria, Anatolia or the Balkans? All these countries fell during the conquests of Islam in the first few hundred years after Muhammad.

Group Hugs, Foggy.

The pope IS responsible. He said it. He is supposedly a moral and spiritual person. Knowing the climate of fear and hate that has been created by Bush and Co. a great leader would have NOT brought Islam into the conversation at all if you are talking about a topic. Clean your own house. Go speak to the Christian governments who have invaded and attacked Iraq and Afganistan.

People want Moslems to apologise for other Moslem's activities as if I  cna control Osama Bin Ladin or have anything to do with it. I want ALL Catholics to apogose for their leader's ill-timed and mis-representation of Islam. 

As we see he did not apologise for the speech but rather thay people are upset by it... he knew what it would do. He  is worried about so many people leaving the Catholic Church for other Christian groups, Islam or to be more agnostic. He fuels the flames..

Is not the pope is suppsoedly the closest representation on earth of God or Jesus or whatever?

ak_m_f wrote: We do wonder how a religion of "peace" can operate in that fashion, but from our perspective I don't think we can be blamed for that. Sometimes I wonder the same thing: Raymond d'Agiles who was an eye-witness to crusade, says :that under the portico of the mosque, the blood was knee-deep, and reached the horses' bridles.'

Well I can apologize for the excesses during the Crusades (which the Catholic Church already has done).  But from a human nature standpoint Islam waged war on Christian Europe.  The Crusades were a response.  Islam had already decimated the Eastern Churches, Islam conqured Spain and was on the borders of Austria.  However the Crusaders were not following Jesus example at all.

But you also can't deny that the crusades ended nearly 1,000 years ago, so they aren't relevant to the discussion of todays issues.

I also don't want to go off topic, plus it would be great if you can quote and respond to my statement in its entirety instead of half sentences taken out of context to derail the discussion, thanks.