Introducing Islam To non-Muslims

StephenC wrote: Andalus wrote: StephenC wrote: "V. Source of Islam.  The history of Islam (see www.islamicity.com history of Islam section) says that years after Muhammad died, his second successor formed a committee to gather notes and recollections from those who heard Muhammad's sermons (mostly slaves and the poor).  The committee decided what would go into the Qur'an and what would be discarded.   You seem to always have great difficulty with logic, and drawing conclusions. 1) It does not matter what status the person was, who had memorized the Quran. By stating that they were "mostly slaves and poor" is a non sequitur, as they do not effect the transmission and preservation. Is it not true that they were "mostly slaves and poor?"

Irrelevant. Here, let me re-paste my last point, which has nothing to do with the number of slaves or poor:

1) It does not matter what status the person was, who had memorized the Quran. By stating that they were "mostly slaves and poor" is a non sequitur, as they do not effect the transmission and preservation.

It was a non-sequitur. Your conclusion does not follow from this point you tried to make.

That is what the truth is, and is an established fact.

Your obfuscation from my reply is a preview of your creation of 50.000 lines of tautalogical dribble that will soon follow. I believe it took 10 pages of thread for you to finally address the topic that was given to you. You will not do it here, and while I am here, you will not do it again.

You seem to have problems with acknowledging undisputed facts that do not fit into your biases!

No, I have problems with your irrational statements, and lack of critical thinking skills. It wastes my time. I also have problems with your constant deflection, and your avoidance of a direct reply to what is given to you.

The undisputed fact is that you are not honest enough to deal with what is given to you.

As for your statement that it does not matter what the status of the person is, surely you are joking!

It seems only you are astouned with yourself. What we ask fo is proof.

Do you REALLY believe that an over worked under feed, uneducated person would be equal to memorization of long verses as say, a student?  Let us be realistic here.  The facts are the facts.  Even if they do not support your position!

You have simply re-asserted what you originally claimed.

Can you provide any proof of this claim?

I have not denied the status of any of the companions. I have denied that your opinions make any real sense.

Keep track of what is really going on.

I have met many poor in third world countries who knew the entire Quran.

Having a difficult life does not mean that you cannot memorize the Quran.

non-suitur

Your sweeping generalizations are simply to juvenile to even comprehend.

StephenC wrote: Andulas: "2) hundreds of Muslims knew the entire Quran at the death of the Prophet (saw)" What is the difference between fact and "religious myths and legends?"

obscure. What sense are you trying to make?

Do you have a list of names and test results that would support that statement?

Complex Question. (yes, it is a fallacy)

And yes, there are names of people who had the Quran memorized at that time.

I have yet to encounter a person that knew had the entire Quran perfectly.   Maybe that would be a good contest to impress nonMuslims.

Then you should stop trolling religous forums and get out more. I have met many people who have the Quran memorized.

Do you know the English alphabet or do you have it rotely memorized like a parrot?  If so, quickly tell me what the 17 letter is without going through any of the other letters.  Can you just as quickly recite the alphabet backwards?

non sequitur. Your conlcusion does not follow.....

Do you claim to "know" the Quran?

no  

Andulas

"1) Your question assumes that a required explanation of clarification implies an imperfection in the revelation.

Please back this assumption up. I will edit your replies if you attempt your usual chicanery. Do not stray from this thread and its point."

You require more of me than you do of yourself.  But so be it.

So we are on the same page, let us establish the definition of "Perfect"

What is the purpose of the Quran?  Is it to provide a written text of the "revelations" of Muhammad?  If it is perfect, then there is no need for anything else.  No "clarifications"  No editing.  No additions.  No subtractions.  But pro-Islamic historical facts tell us that there are clarifications, editing, additions, and subtractions.

StephenC wrote: Andulas "You have already been warned about making claims without evidence or backing them up. Please back up your remarks." Where is the evidence for your LIST?

This is an Islamic forum. I am not required to provide evidence for every single point about my religion that I discuss. If this forum was about your mother, or parents, I would be an idiot to expect you to provide evidence that they were really your paretns everytime you discussed them.

If you want to discuss Islam, and if you make a claim against it, or a claim that runs contrary to our beliefs, then you are required to back it up. It is that simple, and it is not beyond being reasonable.