IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Islam for non-Muslims
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Introducing Islam To non-Muslims  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedIntroducing Islam To non-Muslims

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>
Author
Message
Andalus View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1187
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2006 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by StephenC StephenC wrote:

Originally posted by Andalus Andalus wrote:

Originally posted by StephenC StephenC wrote:

Andulas

"You have already been warned about making claims without evidence or backing them up. Please back up your remarks."

Where is the evidence for your LIST?

This is an Islamic forum. I am not required to provide evidence for every single point about my religion that I discuss. If this forum was about your mother, or parents, I would be an idiot to expect you to provide evidence that they were really your paretns everytime you discussed them.

If you want to discuss Islam, and if you make a claim against it, or a claim that runs contrary to our beliefs, then you are required to back it up. It is that simple, and it is not beyond being reasonable.

Is that your way of saying that there is no proof?

No, it is my way of saying that your requests are absurd and unreasonable. Pay attention.

 

Quote

I have posted claims with cites from this very website (www.islamicity.com).  Not from any anti-islamic site.

I will restate my claims.

The only publicly known oldest copy of the Quran was written 200-300 years after the death of Muhammad.  "This eighth century manuscript from Mecca or Medina is one of the two oldest known existing copies of the Quran." History of Islam www.islamicity.com

Do you dispute this?

No, but you have been replied to about the conclusion you drew from it. And you have not been able to really respond to the points given to you, but only trying to nit pick about trival nuances.

I have replied to your claim, and we are back full circle. This is your usual game.

 

Quote

Muhammad preached to slaves and the poor.  History of Islam www.islamicity.com Do you dispute this?

 

non sequitur.

This has already been addressed.

 

Quote

The Quran was not compiled until years after the death of Muhammad.  It was commissioned by Uthman who formed a committee to sort out what would and would not be in the Quran. 

"Of much greater importance to Islam, however, was 'Uthman's compilation of the text of the Quran as revealed to the Prophet. Realizing that the original message from God might be inadvertently distorted by textual variants, he appointed a committee to collect the canonical verses and destroy the variant recensions."

"With great difficulty, the task was carried out and the first complete manuscript compiled from "bits of parchment, thin white stones - ostracae - leafless palm branches, and the memories of men."

Both from History of Islam www.islamicity.com 

Now what of my claims are not true?  I am not asking what is the relevance.  Just what is not true.

 

You are now building a strawman. I have never argued that your sources were untrue, but your logic and conclusion you drew from them, and I added in things you left out.

And nothing you quoted above is your own, I addressed YOUR CONLUSIONS.

Nice attempt at a strawman!

 

 

 

Quote

Should not a person be fully informed of Islam so they can make educated decisions?

You leave out those things that do not work for your theories, and you never directly debate the points given to you when someone calls you on your innaccuracies.

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
Back to Top
StephenC View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group

Joined: 16 September 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 264
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2006 at 9:25pm

Andulas

"Men did not subtract from it."

Please see above especially "destroy the variant recensions."

 

Back to Top
StephenC View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group

Joined: 16 September 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 264
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2006 at 9:27pm

Andulas

"And nothing you quoted above is your own, I addressed YOUR CONLUSIONS."

Of course the quoted above is not my own.  I am following your onesided demand that I provide proof of my positions!!!!

What exactly do you think my CONCLUSIONS are?

 

Back to Top
StephenC View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group

Joined: 16 September 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 264
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2006 at 9:29pm

Andulas

"Clarifiaction is from the imperfectness of man, not the imperfectness of revelation."

I agree and if someone puts a clarification in an otherwise perfect text, then the text becomes imperfect!

Mud into water produces muddy water.

Back to Top
Andalus View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1187
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2006 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by StephenC StephenC wrote:

Andulas

Quote:

StephenC

What is the purpose of the Quran?

guidance

Then why is it not complete enough that it does not need "clarification" or explanation?

This is a complex question, a fallacy. I have already responded to this erroneous question earlier, which you chose to ignore.

This topic is now closed. You were warned.

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
Back to Top
StephenC View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group

Joined: 16 September 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 264
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2006 at 9:33pm

Andulas

"We are not born know Arabic, or the context of the historical setting, or the Sunnah. To say that if something is explained implies it is imperfect is simply a non sequitur."

If I told you to "Go over there."   Would that be a "perfect" direction?  No, because you do not know where I am and you do not know where I am indicating.

Compare my directions to the Quranic directions about pilgrimage.

Back to Top
Andalus View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1187
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2006 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by StephenC StephenC wrote:

Andulas

"The Quran was not edited."

Then why does Islamicity.com state:

"Of much greater importance to Islam, however, was 'Uthman's compilation of the text of the Quran as revealed to the Prophet. Realizing that the original message from God might be inadvertently distorted by textual variants, he appointed a committee to collect the canonical verses and destroy the variant recensions."

This sure sounds to me like the definition of "edit."  What is YOUR definition of "edit?"

 

variant means it was not the Quran. So the Quran was not edited. Instead of trying to ask st**id questions in order to try and stump Muslims why not spend the time to learn about it.

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
Back to Top
Andalus View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1187
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2006 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by StephenC StephenC wrote:

Andulas

"Men did not subtract from it."

Please see above especially "destroy the variant recensions."

 

please learn what variant is.

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.