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Why believe in Islam? |
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BMZ 
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Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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 Posted: 15 February 2007 at 9:41pm |
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Hi Doug, Will Jesus be arriving before Gog and Magog start killing each other or will he be arriving after all are dead? That is another problem that I can foresee. Muslims believe too that he would return. But I see no point in his return. He had completed the mission given to him by God Almighty before he was put on the cross. That is what the Good Book says. BMZ |
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BMZ
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Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Posted: 15 February 2007 at 9:48pm |
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Hi Doug, The Flow Chart, of the Coming Big Troubles, has a note "Jews are Christians". I don't think the Jews are going to accept that. If Jesus lands in Israel, he will be the Messiah that the Jews had been waiting for milleniums. I think Christians will have to become Jews in all sincerity becuase Jesus will be looking after the sheep of Israel. BMZ |
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rookaiya
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Joined: 04 May 2005 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 385 |
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Posted: 16 February 2007 at 12:02am |
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this is something that we have no control over. Only God almighty knows when and how this will happen.
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Douggg
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Joined: 12 February 2007 Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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Posted: 16 February 2007 at 5:12am |
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Hi BMZ,
 , Will Jesus be arriving before Gog and Magog start killing each other or will he be arriving after all are dead? No, Jesus will be returning to this earth 7 years later. Ezekiel 38 and 39 go together. In Ezekiel 39:9, after the big destruction of the invading armies, the Jews will be burning the remains of the implements of war for fuel for 7 years. That 7 years corresponds to the 7 years that the chart covers from the orange "Gog/Magog" on the left all the way to the extreme right border. At the upper border you will see "Day 1", "Day 220", "Day 1185", "Day 1260", "Day 2520" - the entire 7 years is 7x360days = 2520 days long. Jesus returns on day 2520. It is noted in the upper right hand corner.The beginning of the 7 years is marked by the confirming of the covenant by the incognito Antichrist. In other words, most people will not understand who he is. That the 7 years is kicked off by the confirming of the covenant is nearly 100% universal among Christian bible prophecy scholars. Again, Jesus returns to the earth at the end of the 7 years. I understand what you are saying, BMZ. I have discussed the Muslim end times view with several muslims on line. To be honest with you, what I was looking for was to see if there was any possibilty of the muslim prophecies being such that the Antichrist could pose as the Mahdi or Jesus, thus, fooling the Muslims. My suspicions were at causal glance it is possible, but thanks to the information I receive from the Muslim gentlemen, I concluded that there were too many conflicting prophecies that it couldn't happen. So what I conclude is that the Muslim prophecies just won't play out, as basically the religion of Islam will be invalidated when Gog/Magog happens. That's why I am pointing you to the countries listed in Ezekiel 38 for consideration, as they are all being Muslim except Russia - who herself is a big time Muslim nation ally, arms, and nuclear supplier. Time will prove me either right or wrong. Nonetheless, let me say there are many Christian bible prophecy scholars who do think the Antichrist will pose as the Muslim Mahdi or Jesus. Personally, I think they need to speak to some Muslims themselfs in some extended discussions regarding the muslim end-times view. The Flow Chart, of the Coming Big Troubles, has a note "Jews are Christians". I don't think the Jews are going to accept that. If Jesus lands in Israel, he will be the Messiah that the Jews had been waiting for milleniums. You're telling me they wouldn't it accept it! They would get very upset looking at my chart. They are looking for a messiah who fits what Judaism believes about the moshiach (messiah). They get a good portion of their expectation from the Rambam, a 1200 CE Jewish theologian, not to be confused with the Ramban, another Jewish theologian. A person can get a good understanding of the moshiach the Jews are expecting at http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htmMany of the Jews living in Israel right now don't even have a solid faith in God, as Judaism believes Him, much less believe that Jesus is the Lord and messiah, as Christians do. However, the Gog/Magog event will bring the secular Jews to call upon the God of their bible in their time of desparation when the enormous invasion alliance of Russia and the many muslim nation mobilize to invade. Ezekiel 38 says that God will by supernatural means destroy those armies in the mountains and plains of Israel and the far away cities of the invaders will also receive devastation. It isn't clear as to how the far away cities are devastated - whether by supernatural means or missle retaliation, I don't know. But what I do know is that in that battle. God as it is writtne in Ezekiel 38 is on the side of the Jews and Israel. That much is overwhelmingly clear. Those passage in Ezekiel 38 and 39 were written 500 years before Jesus's time. So neither Isam nor Christianity was in existance at that time. Given the fact that we have the greek Septuagint LXX to verify the Maorectic text (the Jewish Bible) and the KJV, those equivalent modern muslim countries prophesied as making up the invading force was not something the Jews did to conspire againt Islam. Although the nonreligious Jews will get religion durning that time of streses, they will definitely not be Christians. There is some times of troubles for the Jews that they must go through, even after Gog/Magog, before they come to the point when they finally accept Jesus as the Christian bible says they will do one day. With the destruction of all of her enemies in region, overjoyed, the Jews will (erroneously) think that they will have entered the messianic age. This will be bolstered by the arrival of the false messiah, the Antichrist, at that time. The rest of the world will be pretty elated too - no more terrorism. And what few pockets of muslim resistance The Antichrist will confirm the covenant prophesied in Daniel 9:27, which I am fairly certain will be the Mt. Sinai covenant that established the animal sacrifices to begin with. Oh, he won't be sincere, it will be a total act of deception. And with there being no more muslim authority, after Gog/Magog, to deal withl concerning the temple mount, the Jews will rebuild their temple (look back at the chart). In the middle portion of the seven years, the Antichrist will show himself for his true colors and go into the temple and declare himself to be god. And he will stop the sacrifices, demanding worship of himself. At that point the Jews will realize that their big mistake. That they had made a covenant with death and hell by embracing the false messiah. It is then that God removes the scales from their eyes and they turn to Jesus, as Lord and Saviour. BMZ. there are tons of bible verses that support all of what I have said, but we are just having a friendly dialogue here, not a Christian bible class. This is after all a muslim site. I respect that. So that's why I narrated rather than overwhelm you with all of the specific verses and rationale involved. That would take away from the flow of the discussion, I would think. I think Christians will have to become Jews in all sincerity becuase Jesus will be looking after the sheep of Israel. btw, once the Antichrist declares that he is god, the entire world, including those in the U.S. will belief him. The Jews, however, will not and neither will those who become Christian during that time. You have heard of 666, haven't you? Peace, Doug L.Edited by Douggg |
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Hayfa
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Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
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Posted: 16 February 2007 at 6:32am |
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If jesus is God how can God be tempted by the devil??
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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Douggg
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Posted: 16 February 2007 at 6:54am |
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Hi Hayfa, ,God will not yield to temptation to act apart from his divine natural. It doesn't mean that Satan can "attempt" to tempt God. KJV, Matthew Doug L. |
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pauline35
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Joined: 15 November 2005 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 459 |
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Posted: 17 February 2007 at 7:06pm |
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Mr. Douggg predicted :
Jesus will return to this earth prior to May 15, 2018. I get that by believing what Jesus said about the generation that sees the budding of the fig tree parable, which occured in May 15, 1948, which also marks the generation of Gog/Magog, and adding 70 years-the maximum length of a generation. 1948+70= 2018. No later than May 15, 2018, all of the prophecies will be fulfilled regarding the end-times and the return of Jesus. Mr. Douggg, with all due respect, Forgive me that I�ll have to be straight forward on this one. Now there are facts that we cannot deny that Jews are the genius which means 9 out of 10 would outsmart others. The second fact is that US is power crazy and yet is control by the Jews. Their mission is to conquer the world�s economic growth. By doing so, they allowed 9/11 to have taken place so that they have the best reason to control the oil country on the pretext of war on terrorism. It was Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan who mastered 9/11 and how is that ended up in war with Iraq? It certainly does not make any sense as it is like SHE who�d murdered but HE was convicted and sentenced to death. Your prediction about the second coming of Jesus could not be accurate for the bible itself is corrupted since the death of Jesus. To begin with, let�s go back to the bible, the MalachI 2, 3:10. It says BRING ALL THE TITHES INTO THE STOREHOUSE, THAT THERE MAY BE FOOD IN �MY� HOUSE AND TRY �ME� NOW IN THIS,� says the Lord of hosts, �If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it�. In Chinese translated Bible, it is not BRING ALL THE TITHES INTO THE STOREHOUSE, it is said ONE TENTH, in Chinese it is SHI FEN ZHI YI meaning 10 percent to be candid. Also in Chinese translated Bible, it is MALACHI chapter 3 verses 8 where the English assumed to be authentic is chapter 3 verses 10???? How could it be an authentic bible when human has the access to add on and translate based on individual�s assumption and interpretation? Even the verses in Chinese and English Bible were not in line with each other. What is this mean? It means the Bible is totally corrupted. Another preaching from the Chinese Christian is that the 10 percent is GOD�s money so the Christian must �give� (not donate) the 10 percent to the Church (Storehouse) to pay pastor wages for his time spent in sharing gospel (technically convincing others� to accept Christ the savior), to pay churches� electricity and water bills etc also accumulating the GOD�s money for rainy days and natural disaster�s needs (good deeds). My understanding of GOD�s money is that if GOD gave me money to spend then I called it GOD�s money. Similarly as when my father gave me some money, I said it to my friend that it was my father�s money and the remaining unspent money, I�ll have to give back to my father. THAT IS CALLED MY FATHER�S MONEY. Now when it comes to �ME� sweating blood to earn �MY� money, also so-called MY hard-earned money, how could it be called GOD�S money? I thought the meaning of GOD�s money is that GOD works hard and sweat blood to earn money for me. But here the situation is the other way round, I work hard and sweat blood to earn some money and the Bible says, my hard earned money belongs to GOD??? The rhetoric I received from this Chinese Christian is that BUT IT IS WRITTEN IN BIBLE THAT IT IS GOD�s MONEY!!! How pathetic? Is there any senses? If not, then it is called human judgment or human self-interpretation. If it is human self-interpretation, then bible is evidently authored by human not GOD. If Bible is authored by human, then it is called corrupted for it is certainly incoherent. To conclude, since the Bible is evidently corrupted, your prediction is in its inaccuracy state. The Jews are smart, so is the US. In reality, US is in no way to be convinced to worship a human who would declare himself as GOD. This is absolutely just a fairy tale story if one would�ve imagined it will take place. Fairy tale story defines an individual�s dream. Just my opinion. 
Edited by pauline35 |
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Douggg
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Joined: 12 February 2007 Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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Posted: 18 February 2007 at 3:48am |
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Do you think that the Jews of Judaism corrupted the Christian New Testament? Because the basis for my 2018 date theory is based up on the parable of the fig tree found in Matthew 24 of the New Testament for establishing the base date of May 15, 1948.The fig tree is representative in other places in the old testament, as well as in the new testament, as being Israel. For the past 2000 years the state of Israel has been in dormancy - like a tree in winter. Jesus said when we see the fig tree start to bloom, then we know that his return is near. In that same Matthew 24, Jesus said the generation that is alive at time will not pass away until all of the prophecies are complete. Mohammed, the founder of Islam, may say that the New Testament and the Old Testament have been corrupted by the Jews and Christians... but Ezekiel 38 seems to validate both the Jews and the Christians - while invalidating Islam - as God will destroy those mulsim countries who come against Israel. They are all muslim, with the exception of Russia who is in bed the Islamic nations of the middle east as their arms supplier and nuclear materials supplier. According to what I believe, no later than 15 May 2011, the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invasion and defeat will occure. Persia, or modern day Iran, a very faithful muslim country is going to be destroyed by God. All you have to do, pauline, is to listen to the gentleman who is the head of Iran to know that Gog/Magog is very close. If Islam were the religion of God, it claims to be, then why does God in Ezekiel 38-39 say that He is going to destroy all of those muslim countries and protect Israel. Now, one could say Ezekiel 38 is a conspiriacy of the Jews to counter Islam - but the same writings are found in the Greek Septuagent - also called the "seventy", LXX, which dates back to Alexander the Great's day. That preceeded Islam hundreds of years. Since Islam was not known when the Greek Septuagent was translated by the Jews for the Greeks, no conspiriacy theory of the Jews having corrupted that part of the bible is possible. Peace, Doug L. Edited by Douggg |
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Hayfa wrote: