With respect to the post of Farwa Syeda (((well brother tell me onething are you muslim?if you are then from which school of thought do you belong?must be shia i guess???????)))
 I am a Sunni of the Hanafi maslaq  but i also consider Shias as my brothers in Islam.

I dont even want to consider replying to her ramblings about qadiyanis etc etc which  are all false hoods and dont make any sense .According to her frightening ideology,

1) Shias are not muslims 

2)Any one who disagrees with destructive Right wing  fanatical ideologies is either a qadiyani or a Shia.     

May Allah grant all these misguided  and delusional people the ability to think objectively  and also  o-Allah  save us all from these hateful and destructive thinking and ideologies which are totally  against the teachings of Our beloved Prophet(PBUH) and Islam

Ameen

The Lal masjid incidents resulted in regrettable loss of precious human life and the right wing religious  fanatical leaders and clerics need to be made accountable and brought to justice for their shameful role in this tragic episode.

 

 

Edited by syed123

Musharaff being a qadyani, is still a question for me? But bro Syed - one plain question - When Pak is an islamic state then why is such difference between the other islamic state i.e Malaysia? OK, If i assume the general as a sunni muslim ruler, then why is that he attacked over a mosque ! over Women and children?   He shud have arrested them. Is to burn Quran an act of a muslim ruler? How can we support such person and his ideologies brother? U speak of peace then why did n't u act peacefully?
What are the steps your president acted upon to stop vulgars and unislamic acts spreading in the society, We know very well how Pure and islamic Pakistan is? I thank Allah SWT that our ancestors did not move there during partition.
Is Islam being implemented today? Pak's constitution is Quran , How well is it followed?

Allah, the Exalted, says that there should have been a group of wise people present among the past generations who called to good and forbade the evil and corruption that took place among them in the land. Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining righteousness and forbidding evil. And it is they who are the successful. Allah commanded this noble Ummah (followers of Muhammad ) to always have among them those who command the good and forbid the evil. A Hadith says - Verily, whenever a group of people see an evil and they do not change it, it is likely that Allah will cover them with His punishment. So i feel this is the group which invites towards good to the snoozed ummah. As there 's a verse," We wronged them not, but they wronged themselves". This is the fact of people in Pak.

Anyways, i actually wanted a brother to reply u  but unfortunately he did not turn up because of few reasons. It would have been a very very intresting one.

I request all the members participating in this thread not to attack personally and develop hatred towards each other. Lets just express our views and continue the discussions.

[QUOTE=syed123]

With respect to the post of Farwa Syeda (((well brother tell me onething are you muslim?if you are then from which school of thought do you belong?must be shia i guess???????)))
 I am a Sunni of the Hanafi maslaq  but i also consider Shias as my brothers in Islam.

I dont even want to consider replying to her ramblings about qadiyanis etc etc which  are all false hoods and dont make any sense .According to her frightening ideology,

1) Shias are not muslims 

2)Any one who disagrees with destructive Right wing  fanatical ideologies is either a qadiyani or a Shia.     

May Allah grant all these misguided  and delusional people the ability to think objectively  and also  o-Allah  save us all from these hateful and destructive thinking and ideologies which are totally  against the teachings of Our beloved Prophet(PBUH) and Islam

Ameen

The Lal masjid incidents resulted in regrettable loss of precious human life and the right wing religious  fanatical leaders and clerics need to be made accountable and brought to justice for their shameful role in this tragic episode.

 

 

my most self considered knowledgeable,moderate and unfanatic,liberal,very much constructive in thoughts and practices and peace loving(like bush,arial sharon and mushraff)brother syed123:

when i told u that shias are enemies of me?it was your self assumptions and i can do nothing with it.well leave shias it seems from ur talk that qadiyaniz and yahod-o-nasaraz are also ur friends.u must consider salman rushdi and mirza ghulam ahmed a friend of you(well i being a fanatic muslim cant even think abt it)?only the ppl who talk about Allah and his Rasool(SAW)r ur enemies,fanatics,extremists bla bla(and many such terms used by bush,sharon and mushraff(their disciples and other enemies of islam)

either u r sunni or not sunni i dont have any concern wid it,if someone iz sunni it doesnt mean he iz right too.i have seen many sunniz who are nothing but extensions of america and are indulge in shameful acts.

well my very self considered knowledgable,only(truly) practising muslim(not  of this forum,not of this planet but of this universe ),truthful brother it iz a kind of routine matter for a specific group of ppl to call someone as fanatic,extremists,fundamentalists etc just because he/she doesnt agree with them.very respected brother wht does it call in ur self made or borrowed frmm west ideology?iz it also new kind of moderation or just part of it?

brother i m feeling u dont have any ans of my questions bcoz i feel if u wud have ansz of my questions then instead of blaming me u wud like to put forward ur ansz.

do u know brother v both r claiming to be muslim but a lot of difference between u and me.u r follower of islam approved by bush,sharon,mushraff and other evils while i m follower of Mohammad 's islam.

you talked abt teaching of beloved prophet(SAW) so brother i being fanatic and uneducated dont know wht ver teachings of our beloved prophet,imam-ul-mursaleen,khatim-un-nabiyeen Mohammad(SAW)?

to attack on mosques?

and to burn Holy Quran and Holy book of Hadiths?

and then to throw these burnt Quran and books of Hadiths into brooks and garbage?

to kill own innocent children and women(but my limited knowledge says that islam doesnt allow to kill children and women of enemies)?

to kill ppl who preserved Quran in their hearts(for whom Almighty said hell fire iz haraam on them,to whom almighty promised for paradise,the ever living place)?

to fire the bullets on Quranic verses and hadiths and respected names of azwaj-e-motehraat,sahabaz,ahl-e-bait and others repected personalities(which ver written on the walls of Jamia Hafsa and Lal mosque and u ppl also see the marks of bullets and bombing on that walls)????

 to tell lies(which r govt iz continusly doing either it iz matter of number of dead persons or matter of foreigners or matter of weapons)?????

to disgrace and to insult ulmas(who r source of our knowledge to long extent either v believe or not)???

to be partener of america so called war against terrorism but infact war against islam?

to disgrace ppl having sunnat-e-rasool(beard) on their faces?

tell me these are teachings of prophet(SAW)acc to you? bcoz to whom u r favouring they did all this.it means u r faouring all these bashful acts.brother i challanged u,u proved by Quranic verses and hadiths that all these bashful acts r permitted by prophet or taught by prophet(SAW) then i'll admit u r rite and i m ronge and if u failed to do so then u r ronge.

according to my islam our beloved prophet(SAW)taught us,

not be crul

to be just and kind

help out ur muslims brothers

to perform Amar bil Maroof Wa Nahi A-NIL MUNKAR in each and every second of one's life

to say kilma-e-haq b4 a crul and secular ruler

to give respect to females,be loving to children

take care of hurmat of Quran,books of hadiths,masjid,madrasas,daughters of muslim ummah,hafiz,madrasas,sahabaz,ahl-e-bait,azwaj-e-motehraat

well brother i m really amazed on one side u r blowing trumpet of peace but on other side u r favouring killers,animals,beats,inhumans and the ppl who started fight against own ppl(you also know who start fight?if u r truly in favour of peace then u must condemn killings of innocent ppl.u must condemn ppl who start fight)same like americans and other enemies of islam as they r doing terrorism on the name of war against terrorism.

in end i prayed to Allah(SWT),

may Allah(SWT)save us frmm ppl like mir jaffar and mir sadiq in future bcoz it iz easy to fight against kaafirs than to fight against own ppl(munafqeen)?Aameen

 

 

 

Lal Masjid end game
FAUZIA QURESHI

The military operation against the Lal Masjid is over. Most Pakistanis like me are worried about its fallout. The bloody conclusion has only served to bring the government's simmering political troubles into sharper focus rather than make them go away. The Supreme Court ruling that has reinstated the Chief justice constitutes a stunning rebuke for General Musharraf that can only embolden the popular opposition to military rule and has stripped the government of what little popular legitimacy it retained. However, the whole Lal Masjid gory drama has left many questions unanswered in the hearts and minds of many Pakistanis. These questions need answers.
For the Musharraf regime, the Red Mosque had become a source of domestic embarrassment and a political liability. What every Pakistani seems to be asking is how events had been allowed to come to such a messy endgame?

Is it possible that militants and arms continued pouring into the mosque under the watchful eyes of the police and intelligence services? Whenever each so-called crime was committed, the government failed to act, reinforcing the image of impotence?

Where did the bunkers vanish which were so talked about?
Where did the banned armed extremist go after the siege? We don't even know as to how many students were enrolled into the madrassa and how many were inside and have never seen the light of the day again?

How many have gone into the mass graves whose parents are told not to look for them any more?
But then the writ of the state has to be established. But what a crude way to establish the writ of the state!
If the government wanted to prove the professional skills of its forces then it is sadly mistaken as it was a one-sided combat where immense firepower was used against the other. All the suppositions for the delay of the action by the government in order to save as many women and children as they could are negated by the aftermath.

The ruins of whatever is left of the bombarded place tell a lot. The mutilated and disfigured bodies which were in no condition to be handed over to their near and dear tell a gory story. There can be no denying by anyone that the use of force used by our government was disproportionate to the danger facing them.

This is a sheer violation of the international law.
According to Article 3, which is common to the four most prominent documents of International Humanitarian Law (IHL)- the Geneva Conventions of 1949- lays down a set of minimum legal standards that each party is required to follow in armed conflicts taking place within a state. It requires, as irreducible minimum that 'all persons (emphasis added) not taking part in hostilities and who lay down their arms or are wounded or sick should be treated "humanely."' Breaches of Article 3 are part of the unacceptable conduct now referred to as 'war crimes' in International Law. The constitution of the newly created International Criminal Court (ICC) includes breaches of Article 3 as a war crime for which it can prosecute state authorities as well as civilians.
Pakistan though, is not party to the founding treaty, the Rome Statute, so ICC doesn't have jurisdiction over situations taking place within Pakistan but the ICC can have jurisdiction when a situation is referred to it by the United Nations Security Council. The UNSC passed Resolution 1373, which, having been passed under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter is binding on all member states. It obliges states... "to prevent those who finance, plan, facilitate or commit terrorist acts from using their respective territories for the purposes against other States or their citizens."
So, if the Red Mosque was used by the militants as proclaimed by the government then by the letter of the law of the UNSC Resolution 1373, the government of Pakistan violated the resolution by failing to ensure that the militants never organized themselves in the Red Mosque as they did.
What is the most relevant question to be asked is that according to the Constitution of Pakistan the government is the administrative authority. Therefore, the Prime Minister is the administrative head or the chief executive of the country.
The President has therefore no direct link with the administrative working of the country.
If this is true according to the constitution of Pakistan then what business did the Minister of Religious Affairs and other government officials had to take the matter to the President when they were in contact with the Prime Minister himself?
Even if we reject the Opposition Parties claim that President Musharraf is an unconstitutional President, the constitution still doesn't allow him to interfere directly in the administrative working of the country. This power lies only with the Prime Minister and his cabinet.

Similarly if the army came on the request of the Federal Government to help them then after taking the operational position they were supposed to take orders from the Federal government not from any other authority.

 Only the Prime Minister as the Chief Executive had the authority to issue orders and not the Army Chief. There was no logic and reasoning as to why the government officials went to the President for securing the final orders.
Whether an agreement was reached or not is yet another story but as proclaimed by the government that no agreement was reached the reason for taking the final draft to the Presidential Palace is another question mark?
Then comes the pertinent question as to if curfew can be imposed by the President without declaring an emergency?
There is no doubt that President Musharraf's standing has been dented by faltering American support and the brutal killing of his own citizens by his political allies in Karachi in May.

To some extent the Lal Masjid would have reestablished his damaged credentials with the West in their fight against terrorism. But by storming the mosque this regime has drawn itself further into a battle which has no end. 

The bitter truth is that it's a war even the Pentagon can't win. They have failed in Afghanistan and Iraq and are now failing in Pakistan to achieve their primary objective of countering terrorism.

President Musharraf may hold on to power a while longer, or he may not but he definitely needs to answer these questions. 

Edited by Sign*Reader