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Does God beget ? |
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Jocko 
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Joined: 11 September 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 179 |
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 Posted: 22 September 2007 at 2:47am |
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Since it is apparent that Islamispeace refuses to consider what the New Testament says, my future replies to Islamispeace, if there are any, will not be for his sake. (Unless he opens up more to consider the words of Jesus and His apostles and the entire Bible.) They will be for those reading along the discussion who have not adopted a strict rule that what the New Testament says (including the very words of Jesus) are not important. The most we know about Jesus Christ comes from the New Testament. I will continue to teach from it. So, Islamispeace, my future replies in response to what you write are mainly for the sake of those willing to consider the entire Bible. Edited by Jocko |
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I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!
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Jocko
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 5:37am |
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Speaking of Psalm 45, it is filled with revelations of Jesus Christ. Because the center of the Bible is Christ and His redeemed as a corporate Body I will make some comments on the symbolism of Psalm 45. The 45th Psalm is a praise of Christ the king. But He is typified by Solomon. The section from verse 1 to verse 8 is a praise to about the King Himself. This is followed by verses 9 through 15 which are a praise of the queen, the King's wife. Lastly, verses 16 and 17, is a praise about the King's sons. From one angle the redeemed of the Son of God are collectively His Wife. From another angle they are sons of God with the life and nature of God dispensed into them. In Psalm 45 verses 1 - 6 there are praises of Christ in four directions: 1.) His fairness (v.2) 2.) His victory (vv.3-5). 3.) His kingdom (vv.6-7) 4.) His virtues (v.8) This praise consists of two balanced pairs: Christ's fairness is balanced with His victory. And Christ's kingdom is balanced with His virtues. He is therefore voctorious yet fair and lovely in being so. He is a mighty King of a kingdom yet in beloved virtues He is such. The power of His victory is balanced by the sweetness of His virtues. These NT verses help to see that Christ's fairness is balanced by His victory and its requirements (Matt. 5:20;25:14-30; John 15:2,6). Christ the Lord and King comes to us first in the aspect of His lovely fairness. We fall affectionaly in love with the Son of God. And our tongue becomes like the pen of a ready writer. We overflow with praises of the virtue of this worthy One. We could write so much of our love and praise for Jesus. In verse 3 both the majesty and the splendour of the King are signs of His victory. Christ has overcome all of His enemies and has gained the victory. In His resurrection He overcame the whole world and its opposition. Ephesians 4:8 and Revelation 5:5 show Christ overcoming victory over all enemies. While Christ was on earth, He showed His hidden splendour only once, when He was transfigured on the mountain (Matt. 17:1-2). The concealed and hidden glory of His divinity was unseen within the shell of His humanity. On the mountain of transfiguration He temporarily allowed this glory to be manifested from within Him for three of the disciples. After His resurrection and ascension Christ appeared in His splendorous glory to Paul (Acts 26:13-15) and to John (Rev. 1:9-20). In His second coming Christ will shine over the earth to illumine it with the splendor of His glory (Rev. 18:1). "And in Your splendor ride on victoriously because truth and meekness and righteousness; And let your right hand teach your awesome deeds" (Psalm 45:4) Regardless of the situation on earth, Christ is riding triumphantly, prosperously (Acts 5:31). From the day of His ascension He began to ride on, and He will continue to ride until He comes back in victory (Rev. 19:11-16). The "awesome deeds" of Christ include His crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension. And in verse 4 "teach you" should be understood to mean perform for you. Everything Christ does, whether great or small, is awesome. "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; And the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom." The scepter signifies authority. Uprightness in this verse and righteousness in verse 7 are related to authority. As Psalm 89:14 says of Jehovah "Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your throne". Christ's kingdom is the issue of His victory (See Dan. 2:34-35;7:13-14; Matt.28:18; Rev. 19:11-20:6). And the foundation of His divine throne is righteousness and justice. This includes His righteous living and His righteous act upon the cross of Calvary in obedience to the Father. That is all I will write about Christ in Psalm 45 in this post. But in all of these lovely virtues and righteous victories Christ obtains sons of God. And He obtains a Bride to be His "queen". She is composed of all of His redeemed, reenerated, sanctified, transformed, conformed, resurrected, and glorified believers. Who are individually virgin lovers to Him in a symbol and are collectively His Wife and Bride as the New Jerusalem city that CHrist will marry at the end of the Bible. Do not be bothered by Islamispeace's attempt to distract FROM Christ in Psalm 45 rather than to teach it properly as pointing absolutey TO Jesus Christ.
Edited by Jocko |
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I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!
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Jocko
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Joined: 11 September 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 179 |
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 7:18pm |
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There is much more about Christ to be seen in Psalm 45. "You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your companions" (v.7). The oil of gladness signifies the compound Spirit of God. That oil made in the book of Exodus was a compound of subsances carefully measured out and combined together in Exodus 30:23-25. There is a great revelation to be seen in the manner in which this oil was made. This post well be dedicated to that. "Moreover Jehovah spoke to Moses, saying, You also take the finest spices: of flowing myrrh five hundred shekels, and of fragrant cinnamon half as much, two hundred and fifty shekels, and of fragrant calamus two hundred and fifty shekels, and of cassia five hundred shekels, according to the shekel of the sanctuary, and a hin of olive oil. And you shall it a holy anointing oil, a fragrant ointment compounded according to the work of a compounder; it shall be a holy anointing oil. And with it you shall anoint the Tent of Meeting and the Ark of the Testimony, and the table and all the utensils, and the lampstand and its utensils, and the altar of incense, and the altar of burnt offering with all its utensils and the laver and the base. Thus you shall sanctify them that they may be most holy; whatever touches them shall be holy. And you shall anoint Aaron and his sons and sanctify them that they may serve Me as priests ... This shall be a holy anointing oil to Me throughout your generations. Upon the flesh of man it shall not be poured, nor shall you make any like it, according to its composition; it is holy, and it shall be holy to you. Whoever compounds any like it or whoever puts any of it upon a stranger, he shall be cut off from his people" (See Exodus 30:23-33). This holy anointing oil was a compound of olive oil and four spices. It is a full type of the Spirit of Jesus Christ. In the Spirit of Jesus Christ was compounded the divinity of God with the virtues of the man Jesus of Nazareth. There were 500 shekels worth of flowing myrrh, a spice used in the burial of Jesus (John 19:39). These 500 shekels worth of myrrh sybolize the preciousness of the death of Christ (Rom. 8:6). Then there were half so much worth of fragrant cinnamon, 250 shekels worth. The fragrant cinnamon signifies the effectiveness of the death of Christ. Because He died for us His death can effectively kill off many evil things in our nature (Rom. 8:13). Then there was compounded into the compound 250 shekels worth in weight of fragrant calamus. This fragrant calamus was a reed that grew upward in a marsh or muddy place. This calamus reed signifies the precious resurrection of Christ from the whole muddy and marshy realm of death (Eph .2:6, Col. 3:1; 1 Peter 1:3). Then there was added to the compound 500 shekels worth in weight of cassia. This spice was used in ancient times to repel insects and snakes. It signifies the power of Christ's resurrection (Phil. 3:10). The power of His resurrection repels the demons and evil spirits signified by snakes and insects that the spice of cassia kept away. We see in this compound so far three units of 500. But the middle unit is broken into two parts of 250 each. Notice: 500 shekels in weight of myrrh - one unit 250 shekels in weight of cinnimon - one half unit 250 shekels in weight of calamus - one half unit 500 shekels in weight of cassia - one unit. That is three units of 500 hundred. Yet the middle unit is split into two parts. The revelation here is that the compound signifies the Triune God - the Trinity. But the Second Person of the Trinity is split into two because the Son of God died on the cross and was "split" in death. But the three units symbolize the Triune God - the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Now there is more. The number four represents the creatures of God - the creation of God (as in Ezekiel 1:5). And the number three symbolizes here the three - one Triune God. So the three units arranged into four componants signifies that the Triune God was mingled with His creature man. This represents the incarnation of God into a man in Jesus Christ. Now the eternal Spirit of God is represented by the olive oil. The olive oil was the base of the compound. The four spices were compounded into the olive oil as the base. This base is the Spirit of God that was seen in Genesis 1:2 before the Son was incarnated into a man. The eternal Spirit had only the divinity of God. He is the base. Since the number four signifies the creatures (Exek. 1:5), of which man is the head (Gen. 1:26), and then number one signifes the unique God (Deut. 4:35; 1 Tim. 3:5), the four spices signify the humanity of Christ in God's creation. The Son of God came as a man. And man is an item of the creation of God. The human virtues of this man were also brought into the eternal Spirit of God so that today the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the God-man Jesus Christ. We are told "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45). All that Jesus was as a perfect man was compounded into the eternal Spirit of God. God today is a compound God of divinity and humanity. To accomplish this the Second of the Trinity became incarnated and was "split" in crucifixion on His cross for our sins. The Father (500) the Son split snd crucified on the cross (250 + 250) and the Holy Spirit (500). The dividing of the middle unit shows that the Second of the Trinity was crucified. The one hin of olive oil signifies the unique God in His divinity. Now in Christ He is mingled with the man Who the unique God incarnated into. God and man are blended. God and man are mingled together. And this compounded Spirit of the God man is available to anoint the house of God and everything pertaining to the kingdom of God. In Psalm 45 this anointing oil of exultant joy was poured out upon the precious and victorious King above His companions. Since Christ is the source of the four spices He is the chief one to enjoy the holy anointing which is also given to His companions. All this points to the eternal purpose of God dispensing Himself in Christ through the Holy Spirit into man. Christ enjoys the Spirit of God and the perfect attributes of the perfect man because He is the only Firstborn Son of God. His companions are His partners who also partake of the all-inclusive compound anointing Spirit. In this Holy Spirit is all that God's people need. The precious death of Jesus. The effectiveness of His death. The power and preciousness of His resurrection and the power of His resurrection to repel and defeat Satan in our lives are all here. And the base of this compounded all inclusive life giving Spirit is the eternal Spirit of the uncreated and unique God. Isn't this marvelous? What a revelation of Christ and His work is seen in Psalm 45 and in Exodus 30.
Edited by Jocko |
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I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!
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Israfil
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Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 8:13pm |
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Jocko you have completely dodged my response. I take it you have no response for it which is fine with me, however, I respectfully ask you not to copy and paste the bible (as I simply just scroll past them) rather, with your own mind and opinion confront the issue by responding to me.
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BMZ
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 9:48pm |
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Hello Jocko, I have just one important comment to make: There is no systemised theology in Psalms. Psalm are not prophecies. Psalms exalt and glorify God. There is no Jesus in there. Thanks Praise only the Lord Almighty God. BMZ Edited by BMZ |
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BMZ
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 10:51pm |
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Jocko, Who is this "us" in Genesis 11 of the Jewish Holy Scriptures? 1. Now the entire earth was of one language and uniform words. 2. And it came to pass when they traveled from the east, that they found a valley in the land of Shinar and settled there. 3. And they said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and fire them thoroughly"; so the bricks were to them for stones, and the clay was to them for mortar. 4. And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make ourselves a name, lest we be scattered upon the face of the entire earth." 5. And the Lord descended to see the city and the tower that the sons of man had built. 6. And the Lord said, "Lo! [they are] one people, and they all have one language, and this is what they have commenced to do. Now, will it not be withheld from them, all that they have planned to do? 7. Come, let us descend and confuse their language, so that one will not understand the language of his companion." 8. And the Lord scattered them from there upon the face of the entire earth, and they ceased building the city. 9. Therefore, He named it Babel, for there the Lord confused the language of the entire earth, and from there the Lord scattered them upon the face of the entire earth.
(Please note that it is not written in bold or caps)
Now, take a look at Genesis 11, according to the Christians' Bible NASB and carefully look that the "us" that has been turned into an "Us".
 Genesis 11
1Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words.
2It came about as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there. 3They said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and burn them thoroughly." And they used brick for stone, and they used tar for mortar. 4They said, "Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth." 5The LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. 6The LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. 7"Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech." 8So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city. 9Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of the whole earth; and from there the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of the whole earth. Note in Genesis 11:6, it is the LORD who said that. After that God took his party, the angels and whoever they were, for the fun. Now take a look at Genesis 3:22 of the Christians' Bible: 22Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- And take a look at Genesis 3:22 of the Jewish Bible: 22. Now the Lord God said, "Behold man has become like one of us, having the ability of knowing good and evil, and now, lest he stretch forth his hand and take also from the Tree of Life and eat and live forever."
Can you spot the difference? If I see a group of children and I tell them, "Come, let us go and play a game." It is me, just one man, who is saying that. BMZ Edited by BMZ |
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BMZ
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Posted: 22 September 2007 at 11:11pm |
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BMZ PS. Jocko, I love using emoticons. Please do not mind my doing so. Edited by BMZ |
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minuteman
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Posted: 23 September 2007 at 2:21am |
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It is not only in Capital letters ans small letters that the evangalists are making changes in the scripture but also in many other ways too. But they make a small change at a time. That becomes useful to them later. I just give one example: In Deut 18:20 it was written that any prophet who shall speak in the name of God anything that was not commanded to him then that prophet shall be killed. Now you see that in Deut 18:20 they have changed it to "that prophet will die". There is a difference in dying and being killed. Every prophet, true or false dies. But not all claimants are killed. I want to know why these people are slowly drifting away from the truth. Jesus was a prophet and he died too according to the evangalists. Not only did he die but we can say that he was killed. So what about him as per Deut 18:20??? If a person can die once, he can die again too. |
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We should not take that word 'us' or 'Us' or 'US' seriously to decide how many Gods were there. 
Israfil wrote: