Does God beget ?

 Mauri,

    I thought it was an excellent point you made that Hezekiah having God add another 15 years to his life does not make him the Eternal Father.

    On the other hand if one should be killed and rise from the dead He is more of a condidate to be called the Father of Eternity or Eternal Father. His life has been proved to be indistructible.

  Now Islameispeace,

   You challenge me on here saying:

Can you provide evidence that cassia was used to repel insects and snakes? Many historians, like Herodotus and Pliny, mention cassia in their writings, and none of them mention that it was used to repel insects and snakes.  Can you also provide evidence that insects and snakes were used as symbols of demons and evil spirits.  I can understand a snake representing the devil, but I have never heard insects representing demons.

     There is only so much reference work I will do for you Islamispeace.  If you want to reject out of hand Christian scholarship about the cassia go ahead. In my spare time I'll look up the backround information. I will not do that research now.

   However, that the snakes and insects represent Satanic and demonic forces in the Bible is not too hard to find:

  In Luke 10:19 Jesus says concerning the authority He has given the disciples to cast out demons "Behold, I have given you the authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by no means hurt you. However do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to, but rejoice that your names are recorded in the heavens"

  The scorpions and snakes are associated with the evil spirits.

  Satan is typified as the serpent in Genesis 3:1,14.     He is called the ancient serpent in Revelation 12:9. Satan has his fallen angels who followed him in rebellion against God (Matthew 25:41; Rev. 12:4a, 7b)

  "Lord of the flies" was an ancient name applied to one of the demon gods of the Gentiles. In the time of Jesus they contemptuosly altered the name to mean "Lord of the dunghill" and applied it to the Devil. The particular passage in the NT I don't have at the moment. But trust me that it is there.

  The demonic spirits in Revelation coming out of the abyss are signified by evil insects - locusts (Rev. 9:1-11).

  While I would not say that demonic activity is always portrayed by snakes and insects in Scripture, there are ample examples where that association is intended. In one passage Jesus taught his disciples to be as wise as serpents. I would not include that passage as a support to this snakes - evil spirits association.

 In this post I will speak mostly to the begetting of forgiven sinners as sons of God. Latter I'll talk about the only begotten Son and the Firstborn Son.

Jocko apparently in your case "if the Bible says so it must be true" attitude is not helping you win me over with dialogue.

     I may not be able to "win [you] over with dialogue."  So I don't promise you that this will happen.

     As Christians our faith rests not on the wisdom of man but on the power of God. Neither can I adaquately explain how a man could be raised from the dead. All we know is that death is the end of a human being. Yet we believe that Christ was raised from the dead.

     You may say, "Because no Christian has been able to explain to me how once dead, a man can be brought back to life, I am not persuaded of the Gospel of God, the New Testament".

    I accept that. But apart from the divine, even in the natural world there are a number of wonderful things which I also cannot explain like the joining of a sperm with an egg and how it develops into a full human being.

  So failure to be able to fully explain is a limitation I acknowledge.

Again, you fail to answer those "truths" from the questions I've posted. Again, how does God beget himself? If such is possible how does it not in the hierarchy of things create an inequality of substance in God?

  That is a good question. Here is another one:

 How does God create something out of absolutely nothing?

  Here's another: 

 How is it that God could have always been ?

  I don't promise that my ability to explain these truths will win anyone over by dialogue. Well, smarter people than you and I nonetheless have turned to the Christian faith for about 2,000 years. The Gospel doesn't seem to be dying out. Meeting God in Jesus is so real that I don't think all the seekers are going to be stumbled by man's inability to fully explain some of the statements of the Scripture.

   God begets us as sons by regeneration. We were born with a natural life. Regeneration is to receive another life in addition to the life we were born with.

 Regeneration makes us God, but not in the Godhead. In these important aspects God begetting us has limitations:

 1.) For us to be begotten of God makes us God - but not God as an object of worship.

 2.) For us to be begotten of God makes us God - but not ominscient.

 3.) For us to be begotten of God makes us God mingled with humanity - but not omnipresent.

 4.) For us to be begotten of God makes us God united with humanity - but not omnipotent.

 5.) For us to be begotten of God makes us God blended with man - but not Creators of universes.

  Now the son of a horse is of the horse kind. He is a horse. The son of a cat is a cat. The son of a elephant is also an elephant. The daughter of a shark is a shark. The offspring of a creature is the continuation of that kind of creature.

  Now what is the son of God?

 In the case of sinners saved through Jesus Chrust a son of God is God mingled with man. It is not too much to say that a child of God is made of the same "species" as God. And I borrow the word "species" because of the limitation of human language to explain this truth.

 To be born of God today is to be made a God-man the way Jesus is a God-man.

 So for the sinner to be begotten of God after being redeemed is to be continuation of what God is in a human being. But we do not become the Head of the relationship. We are the offspring of the relationship.

 www.regenerated.net  is a good site to discuss regeneration.

 We do not receive the Fatherhood of the relationship. We are the receivers of the life of God. We are not the Source of that life. God is able to dispense His life and what He is into man and retain those non-communicable attributes which are His alone.

My children have my life. They do not have my fatherhood. But they do have my life. In a sense by having children I expanded myself into them. The analogy is not a perfect one. I hope it helps.

  Jesus told this parable about His upcoming death:

  "Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies it abides alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)

   "Much fruit" here means the encrease of what Jesus is. Within the shell of the humanity of Jesus was the divine life. That life was concealed inside the shell of His created humanity.

  God did not desire that that one unique grain would abide alone. Christ death broke the shell of His humanity and the divine life was released to produce much fruit. That is other sons of God. He fell into the ground and died in crucifixion. In resurrection He begot  many other sons of God by dispensing His life into them as the Holy Spirit.

 "the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45).

   The Apostle is emphatic that the one who has the Son of God has the eternal life of God:

 "And this is the testimony, that God gave to us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

 I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God" (1 John 5:11-13).

 "Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God" (1 John 4:14)

  Being begotten of God, to us, means to receive the Son of God. To receive the Son is to receive the life of God. That which is communicable of God's Being is dispensed into man to develop and grow within man unto maturity. God begets sons by dispensing His Spirit into them. He imparts His life and nature into them causing them to receive a life in addition to the life they have by natural birth.

 www.regenerated.net

 To be begotten of the Triune God is to be joined to the Lord Jesus "organically" deep in the human spirit:

 "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17).

 This is a deep union and blending of God with man. Our being joined to God makes us the encrease and expansion of God into humanity. He is the Source and Head of the relationship. We the begotten of God are His offspring and divine family of the relationship.

 God knows exactly what and how to dispense Himself into man. He regulates with perfect divine self control what of Himself is communicated into man.

  Jocko, we are already in great difficulty due to the use of too many metaphors, the son of God, not the real son of god, the word begotten, the Trinity having Unity, all these things are symbolic only.

   The Bible has many metaphors. Jesus and the Apostles used many metaphors. It did not stop the Holy Spirit from giving people the ability to believe the word of God.

     I think prayer is a good thing to do in addition to our "prophesying" in part.

 We wished that the church used the real language every where except when very necessary.

  Would you say that Jesus did not use real language when He spoke about a house built on a rock, or keys to the kingdom of the heavens, or His Father's house, or the one grain that fell and produced many grains?

     "All Scripture is God breathed and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness ..." (1 Tim. 3:16).

   While I do recognize the need to discern what the hearer is able to receive, I also recogonize the "all Scripture" is profitable for teaching.

    If I have stated something which you think is contrary to Scripture, I await for you to point it out to me.

 Using too much the words which are not in common circulation, causes confusion.

   Not in common circulation among us? These words are in common circulation among thousands of us who are seekers of God's eternal purpose.

Now here you have made a strange type of god. Every one of you is a god but a differnt type of god.

   This fear of yours may be due to the fact that you under appreciate that what God wants  to give us is His life. It is not that He simply wants us to have information about Him in an objective way. He is not satisfied to be the objective God far away as an object of our objective worship.

  God desires to impart His life into man. He desires sons of God. And He desires to be one with  His redeemed. These are basic matters. Rather than water down the truth to accomodate natural thoughts we should teach and allow men to elevate their concepts to what the Bible teaches.

   There are plenty of people preaching a superficial gospel of dying and going to Heaven. That's easy for everyone to understand. But how biblical is it? Is God only the God of death? Do we always have to go into the realm of death in order to meet God?

   Be patient and pray for our testimony. And I will certainly pray for your "style" of testifying, as long as you don't oppose any of the truth that I am sharing here.

A god who is not omni potent, who is not omnipresent etc.

   Is it more complicated then a God who became a thirsty man, a tired man, a hungry man, a sinless and obedient man, a man who wept, and who felt pain, and who was crucified and cried out "My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me?"

That makes it more complicated. Then we will have to be careful about the usage of the word "god". We will have to keep a different type pf god in our mind.

 I will spend all the energy I have to communicate that God desires to impart Himself into man. God desires to beget sons. God desires to dispense His Spirit into man.

 What will you do when they ask what is "born again?" Will you say that this is just a ticket to go to Heaven?

 Think of the implications of being born of God. The Bible doesn't shy away from the implications of being born of God. Why should we?

  I will take your fellowship to the Lord in prayer. But don't expect me to dumb down the teaching of God's economy. Don't say "People will not understand." That is not true. People WILL understand what the Holy Spirit enlightens to their minds and hearts.

 Thanks anyway for your fellowship though I must take it with caution.

Ok I'm officially done.

Jocko you shouldn't say something is true if you can't explain it. Simply just referring me to the Bible doesn't help me understand what you are saying it basically dumps me into another set of problems to figure out. It wouldn't be fair to you if I said Islam is true and, when you ask me, I say well it is true because the Qur'an says so. These answers are not adequate because they are subjective which is ok but you need to elaborate more. Obviously you have shown you don't know what you are talking about.