Does God beget ? |
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rami
Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549 |
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Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem
Surely God is more incomprehensible and more wonderful than anything He created! What is in creation he chose to share with us therefor it is in the realms of our understanding. Do we not have apparent paradoxes in God's creation? Complexity is not a sign of the trinity, you would make a better argument stating the impossible as sign of 3 equaling one. How about the wave-particle duality in physics, or the dual states in quantum mechanics described by Schrodinger's cat? By that principle this is also evidence for Abu yazid al bistami's [a muslim saint] 24000 expansions in which he was witnessed appearing in 24000 different places at the same time [ many other similar miricales by differant saints have also been reported] does that make any one of the 24000 different from him or prove the existance of a trinity, does this imply that there could be more than a trinity but a 24000inity. Paradoxes are what ever you see in them they are not explicit arguments for anything. |
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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Jocko
Senior Member Joined: 11 September 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 179 |
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What is in creation he chose to share with us therefor it is in the realms of our understanding. Just because God created things for us to enjoy does not necessarily mean that we can fully comprehend them. He doesn't forbid us to try. But His creation prepared for our existence does not mean He is obligated to see that we have no sense of mystery about it. Complexity is not a sign of the trinity, you would make a better argument stating the impossible as sign of 3 equaling one. I didn't see where JasperStone said "complexity" per se was a aspect of the Trinity. I see that he made the case that even in creation there are things which we cannot fully explain. I see you counter by saying that God must expect us to comprehend it if He created it for our sharing. I contribute that that is not necessarily so. We can enjoy and derive benefit from things which are mysterious to us. Most of our curiosity is based on a desire to munipulate the laws of nature to make life easier for ourselves in some way. Man suffers for the scarcity of things. He labors under the curse that devours the earth because of the rebellion of Satan and of man. Because of the hard labor and scarcity of resources man is ever curious how to control the forces of nature to lesson his plight of labor and suffering. The inventions like the light bulb, the hydro electric dam, the telephone, the TV, the computer, even space flight are all aimed at improving our suffering condition under the curse of fall of man. Under the full kingdom of God with its plentitude, justice, love, harmony, and pervading peace, I am not sure how the curiousity of mankind will react to abundant provision of all things needed. Anyway, the saved will have eternity to find out. Edited by Jocko |
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I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!
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JasperStone
Groupie Joined: 03 October 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Well said Jocko.
I am not saying that paradoxes in creation specifically prove the Trinity, though they do support that three-one is not so outlandish after all. I am countering the idea that God must fit within our framework of understanding. Many things in His creation do not; how much less Himself. But He has made it simple to experience Him (hence the title of another thread). The ocean is deep and unfathomable but very easy to experience. Understand or not, call the Son, the Spirit will come, and bring to you the Father. Edited by JasperStone |
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For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, we shall be saved in His life, having been reconciled. (Rom 5:10)
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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ok I give up.... |
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Mauri
Senior Member Joined: 27 August 2006 Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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Based upon man's comprehension, a bumblebee cannot fly. Consider: Whatever you imagine, Allah is Different from that. |
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Mauri
Senior Member Joined: 27 August 2006 Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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If you agree that Hippocrates is the father of medicine, what do you think he sired? And, with whom? ;) What alleged "part" of Hippocrates divided/separated and entered the womb
of a consort/mother? Do you also reject the Old Testament verse that says God breathed (Gen.2:7) because, according to you, that would mean he needed a body with lungs or gills, etc.? What about the Old Testament verses that refer to God's hand, finger, face, etc.? Do you think they are wrong, too? Edited by Mauri |
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Biblical Scholars would say those [hand, finger, face] are all figurative not literal.
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Mauri
Senior Member Joined: 27 August 2006 Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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Yes. Would you agree that calling Hippocrates "the father of medicine" is also figurative? If the OT and even contemporary man can express true concepts figuratively, what prevents John 3:16 from being figurative? |
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