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Does God beget ? |
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Jocko 
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Joined: 11 September 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 179 |
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 Posted: 12 November 2007 at 7:06pm |
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================================== Jocko, then, your particular "sect" would be categorized as non-denominational. ================================== We are not denominational, nor non-denominational, nor inter-denominational. We stand as the church receiving all those who have been received by Christ Himself.
Edited by Jocko |
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I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!
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minuteman
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Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
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Posted: 12 November 2007 at 7:16pm |
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Jocko, Do you have a list or some kind of certificate for those who have been recieved by Jesus?? Do they have to confess only or have to pass some exmination to be admitted in your kind of church?? All I knew was that in Hide park corner London, the padre was telling me that if I just say the name of Jesus even once then I am forgiven. That was also told to me by my friends too. "Say the name of Jesus and you are forgiven". That is a very high standard of belief in Jesus. There was the salvation army working there and teaching the same good and easy way to salvation. There must be some definite way to ascertain that one has been visited / received by Jesus himself.
Edited by minuteman |
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Angel
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Joined: 03 July 2001 Status: Offline Points: 6641 |
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Posted: 13 November 2007 at 12:48am |
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Hi Jasper. let me see what i can do to furthur explain. When you said that you don't care whether Israfil joins the system or not but care for him to experience Christ. To me Christians are suppose to be welcoming of prospective followers, when you say you don't care that is not christian or christ-like. In the church (putting your side of opinion which is not what its suppose be) you need to believe in Jesus as God, believe in trinity, bible as the word of God, go through baptism, holy communion and confirmation, to be able to recieve Jesus Christ (and all the other titles that are attributed to him) which therefore experience Christ. But if you don't believe in any of them then you can't possible experience Christ or be Christ-like. Just believing in the person of Jesus Christ is not enough. You say that for Israfil (& others like him and me) who doesn't believe in certain things of Christianity & is not a follower, but believing in Jesus the person is enough to be Christ like and be called a christian ?? I beg to differ that is what the church means, and also its too easy anyone can and many do believe in just the person, Jesus. But without all the other beliefs to follow no your not really Christian or Christ-like. Muslims believe in Jesus the person without all the other stuff, nor are they in the system so basically they are Christian, christ-like too according to your explanation. Your stand or take on this is not according to the teachings of Christianity so I kinda have to question your stance as a christian. Now your explanation is off track, and one that is close to my personal meaning, you and I agree that the word Christian means Christ-like and thatone does not need to be in the system. For me knowing somethings about Jesus and how he behaved and acted (which only comes from the religion of Christianity since there seems to be no other sources about jesus) gives me something to go on about being Christ-like. But the church (and you say the curch is the people) says you need to have this and that thou. I have no idea if all that helped
It refers to the things man added, man's teachings and man's traditions have been added, so then the bible is not entirely God's words? that Christianity isn't entirely from God? that is what it sounds like to me. I did ask for an explanation when you mentioned that Christianity is a "religion of man". I'm not sure if the above paragraph of yours is meant to be. got to go now. Edited by Angel |
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 ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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JasperStone
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Joined: 03 October 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Posted: 13 November 2007 at 4:48pm |
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Angel,
I think that you are not being very careful about what I say and what I don't say. I take great pains to be precise (though I still make mistakes). Yes, one must believe in Christ to experience Christ. One must not simply believe in the historical Jesus. I believe in the historical George Washington, but he cannot do anything for me now and I cannot experience him because he is dead. You must believe in the Jesus Christ who died and rose from the dead. This One who rose from the dead is now living and able to be received by those who believe into Him. I don't think I said anything contrary to this. You seem to equate the church with Christianity (or perhaps the Roman Catholic Church). I see a difference. I don't know if I can be any clearer than what I've already said. Christ is a person; the church is also people, Christ's believers. Christianity has Christ, has the church, but has added a lot of man's traditions. It is entirely possible to receive this Person and become one of His people yet not accept all the traditions. I agree that we must believe the Bible as God's word. It is the Bible that tells us to believe in the resurrected Jesus Christ, and it is the Bible that reveals the Trinity. It refers to the things man added, man's
teachings and man's traditions have been added, so then the bible is
not entirely God's words? that Christianity isn't entirely from God?
that is what it sounds like to me. I did not say that the Bible is not entirely God's words. I said that the system of Christianity is not entirely of God. There is a very big difference. The Bible is 100% from God. Christianity has added man's traditions to God's word. Edited by JasperStone |
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For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, we shall be saved in His life, having been reconciled. (Rom 5:10)
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JasperStone
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Joined: 03 October 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 65 |
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Posted: 13 November 2007 at 4:59pm |
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Angel, I have read your long post. Much of it is kind of a running commentary, and most of it is directed toward Jocko's points. I agree with everything Jocko said, but I don't know that I am the one to answer for him. Do you have any specific questions for me? |
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For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, we shall be saved in His life, having been reconciled. (Rom 5:10)
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Jocko
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Joined: 11 September 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 179 |
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Posted: 13 November 2007 at 5:13pm |
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My Moslem friends, We have had a good discussion. But I think the time may be coming when I should not post anymore. I have presented some answers to some objections and now am repeating former ground having already gone over. Besides this, within me is a Gentleman. He is not about forcing people or coercing people. I have presented some truths that I hope you will think about and pray about in the years to come. Though I like to debate these things the Holy Spirit within me seems to be moving to allow the listeners their freedom to believe what they would like to believe. So my participation may begin to taper off. I love to speak of the glory of Christ so I hope there are other sites where I can go and proclaim Christ the Son of God - God dispensing His divine life into man. If JasperStone continues to participate you should listen to him. as for me it is time soon for me to concentrate on praying for those who hear the gospel and not perpetually arguing about it. Agape,
Edited by Jocko |
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I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!
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Israfil
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Posted: 13 November 2007 at 10:33pm |
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Jocko, you have not provided proof for your defense nor was your presentation of the Bible [in further defense] adequate enough. You have provided substantial hypothesis yet, none of them in this forum were validated. Most of your posts are "sermons" than discussions. Although I find you somewhat sincere, it is evident you are capable of defending what you believe. You would rather for me to "leave it up to the Bible" rather than discuss this logically. |
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Angel
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Joined: 03 July 2001 Status: Offline Points: 6641 |
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Posted: 14 November 2007 at 12:17am |
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My previous post, I need redo I realised after, actually this afternoon that is not what i truly wanted to say. I felt something was a bit of amiss when writing it I have to apologise. I will be back perhaps tomorrow, right now I'm a bit tired. |
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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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But Christians don't believe muslims are Christians since they do not believe in certain stuff, like the trinity and jesus is God. Christians believe muslims deny jesus divinity as God and in order to experience jesus you must believe! 
hopefully 
or i've just made it more complicated 
JasperStone wrote: