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1o1 Biblical Contradictions |
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Mansoor_ali ![]() Senior Member ![]() Male Joined: 25 September 2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 584 |
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Mansoor_ali ![]() Senior Member ![]() Male Joined: 25 September 2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 584 |
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JOUBERAR The corruption lies not with the Bible, but rather with the Qur'an, the creation of Arabs in need of a religious text to substantiate their developing monotheistic religion. Response Please prove your claim that Arabs need religious text in order to substantiate their monotheistic religion. JOUBERAR Large parts of the Qur'an are direct transfers from the Bible. Response Again prove it. JOUBERAR Many more parts of the Qur'an contain stories about personalities from the Bible, but often the stories are incorrect. The Qur'an states that Mary was Aaron's sister, that the great Flood of Noah occurred during the time of Moses, and that Joseph was bought as a slave by an Egyptian named Aziz (instead of Potiphar), to name a few. Response Sorry these Quranic stories are not incorrect.Here is reply: Al-ʿAzīz & Potiphar: A Confused Nomenclature? JOUBERAR The evidence seems to point to an early acquaintance with the Christian scriptures during the early years of the Arab Empire, and also to the misunderstanding of much of what they heard and saw in them. The Arabs merely cobbled together their various impressions of what they had heard, and made them a part of the Qur'an. Response Prove your claim. JOUBERAR While the falsity of Muslim claims for the revelation of the Qur'an and its subsequent lack of change have been previously exposed, the Muslim charges concerning the corruption of the Bible ought to be addressed briefly. Response Prove that Quran had been changed? JOUBERAR Islam has yet to produce any textual evidence to demonstrate the corruption of the Biblical texts as a whole. Often, Muslims will try to point to differences in readings between individual manuscripts, and use this to support their assertion. However, the science of textual criticism, as applied to the task of systematically examining the manuscript evidence, provides Christian scholars the ability to distinguish between true and spurious readings in individual manuscripts. The body of evidence, from Greek manuscripts, the manuscripts of other ancient versions (Old Latin, Syriac, Coptic, Latin Vulgate, etc.), and the quotations of early Christian writers allows us to determine the content of the original autographic texts with as yet unassailed certainty. Response Visit:Examining the Bible JOUBERAR It should be noted that, as was dealt with earlier, Islam cannot truthfully make the same claim, and in fact is logistically unable to even make the attempt because of the artificial standardisation of the Arabic Qur�an text by Uthman, and the subsequent destruction of most all contrary Quranic manuscript evidence. Thus, the Muslim assertion rests entirely on blind faith in what amounts to a tradition handed down through Islam for roughly 1500 years. Facts show, however, that the texts used to produce the Bible are the preserved, uncorrupted words of God. Response Here is the answer to your long lasting strugle.
"Who is the Holy Spirit?"
Answer: There are many misconceptions about the identity of the Holy Spirit. Some view the Holy Spirit as a mystical force. Others understand the Holy Spirit as the impersonal power that God makes available to followers of Christ. What does the Bible say about the identity of the Holy Spirit? Simply put, the Bible declares that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also tells us that the Holy Spirit is a divine person, a being with a mind, emotions, and a will. The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures, including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had �not lied to men but to God.� It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the characteristics of God. For example, His omnipresence is seen in Psalm 139:7-8, �Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.� Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10-11, we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. �But God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man�s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.� We can know that the Holy Spirit is indeed a divine person because He possesses a mind, emotions, and a will. The Holy Spirit thinks and knows (1 Corinthians 2:10). The Holy Spirit can be grieved (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit intercedes for us (Romans 8:26-27). He makes decisions according to His will (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). The Holy Spirit is God, the third Person of the Trinity. As God, the Holy Spirit can truly function as the Comforter and Counselor that Jesus promised He would be (John 14:16, 26, 15:26). The Fact as you can clearly see the holy spirit is God and lying to Holy spirit is lying to God, so keep it in mind if you say God is not thee Holy spirit spirit then you are a liar then you say God is unholy and if you wanna lay claim on something else that can be related to as the holy spirit then you are wrong cos there nothing related to God.
Response Now if you believe in trinity then you contradict with John 17:3. John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Notice how the Father is being referred to as THE ONLY TRUE GOD.How is it possible for the Father to be the ONLY true God, while at the same time the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well? If the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well, then it is false to say that the Father is the ONLY true God. Similarly, if we say that the Father is the ONLY true God then we can't say that anyone else (i.e. Son and Holy Spirit) is God as well. It is not possible for any one of the persons (Father, Son or Holy Spirit) to be the ONLY true God at the same time when the other two are God as well.I contend that John 17:3 is the hermeneutical key that one should use to understand all the other verses for it is unambiguous and clear.It is logically impossible for the Father who is a different person from the Son and Holy Spirit to be the only true God at the same time when the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well. |
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Sign*Reader ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3352 |
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I have a request for everyone... please use quote button to help keep it to the point and simple! Long rambling screeds kill the fun, focus or both! |
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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Friendship ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 24 August 2008 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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Assalaamu alaikum.
JOUBERAR Large parts of the Qur'an are direct transfers from the
Bible. Response: The holy apostle spent 13 years inviting the People of the Book to what their prophets and messengers brought to their tribes. One can say about 80% of the holy Qur'an is made up of what Allah revealed from Adam to Jesus the son of Maryam. There were only two messenger- Moses and Jesus the son of Maryam before Muhammad Rasulullah. Logically, his invitation or preaching must be what their prophets and messengers taught. Muhammad never claimed to bring something new! The Arabs i.e. Quraysh heard about Muhammad from the Jewish clan of Levi and the christian muslim followers of Jesus the son of maryam living especially in syria. The cousin of Khadija was a muslim follower of Jesus who knew about the prophecy in the Bible and hoped to live when Muhammad will be given the Messengership. The holy apostle had contact with the followers of Jesus the son of maryam when they came to Madina after the conquest of Makka to ask about the nature of Jesus. They were told and did not dispute with him. They went back to their state of Najran accompanied by Abu Ubayda ibn Jarrah to be their umpire in their disputes. He was sent at their request. His contact with them could not be more than 2 weeks. However he lived with the Jewish clan of levi for about 6 years in Madina. They were responsible i.e. instrument to the sending down of the Shari'a, simplified version of the Ten commandment, containing the Mercy of Allah. We should concern ourselves with the absolute truth that Muhammad lived peacefully with the Jews and those who called themselves Christians. There was never any direct engagement with the true followers of Jesus the son of Maryam. The Jews knew about covenants and he treated them according to what is laid down in the Old Testament. I read the commentary of the bible by Rev. Matthew Henry. and the American revised edition of the Bible. A muslim should only understand and believe in those verses similar to what is explained in the Qur'an. This easy if one understands Arabic. One has to treat the bible in the manner we treat the ahadith of the holy apostle. It is the Qur'an that Allah promised to protect and not any scripture before it. Please let us distinguish between the Christians of the Byzantine empire who tortured their contemporaries and the Jews and the christians who all accepted Islam voluntarily. Let us give credit please to the sunna of the holy apostle for he stabilized the world. Friendship |
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Mansoor_ali ![]() Senior Member ![]() Male Joined: 25 September 2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 584 |
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To Larry Larry,next time i will not write or quote or copy any article over "who was riding the camel" now my focus is new topic which is ongoing between you and Hasan. |
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JOUBERAR ![]() Guest Group ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 March 2009 Status: Offline Points: 573 |
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Muhammad lived six hundred or so years after Mary and Jesus. What were his sources for their life?
Devout Muslims say that over time Allah sent Gabriel down to reveal the entire Quran to his favorite prophet Muhammad. Muhammad even asserts in the Quran that he was not there during the events in the life of Mary, but he still has revelations from Allah, so who needs facts? 3:44 This is an account of things [about Mary�s childhood] beyond your knowledge that We [Allah] revealed to you [Muhammad]: you were not present . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur�an, Oxford UP, 2004; first two additions in brackets are ours) This verse spells out the epistemological challenge to devout Muslims and to everyone else. (Epistemology studies how we acquire our knowledge.) In effect, Muhammad says, "I wasn�t there, so believe that I got these events in Mary�s life from Allah!" Thus, belief has been exalted to high heaven. Revelation seems to trump all other kinds of knowledge, such as careful research. But what if the revelations are built on fictions? Should we then believe in them? This is far different from Luke�s narrative about the birth of Jesus. He said he conducted careful research into events while they were still fresh in people�s minds (Luke 1:1-4). Neither he nor other Biblical authors set up the following unrealistically high standard: "I was not there 600 years ago, so if I assert by a revelational trance that any event of long ago is historical (but it really is not), then still believe me against all odds. I get the knowledge of these events from a Gabriel-induced spell, no matter what the facts say. I did not get these verifiable facts from human sources, so don�t come along after me and research my claims!" Biblical inspiration allows for an "organic" and human-cooperative connection to the Holy Spirit. Does Muhammad use the same care as Luke does? No, so that means his unrealistically inspired Quran is set up for a fall, once some facts contradict it. Young Mary receives provision and care in Sura 3:37 and 3:44. Muhammad loved to tell the stories of the Bible, but in his own special way. He adds and deletes details, compared to the original versions. He editorializes the Bible on Noah, Abraham, Lot, and Moses, for example, but most significantly he borrows and editorializes the birth and childhood of Mary. The canonical Four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are completely silent about this legend. However, an apocryphal gospel invents fictions about Mary, from which Muhammad borrowed. The Quran says: 3:37 Her Lord graciously accepted her and made her grow in goodness, and entrusted her to the charge of Zachariah. Whenever Zachariah went to see her in her sanctuary, he found her supplied with provisions. He said, "Mary how is it you have found these provisions?" and she said, "They are from God: God provides limitlessly for whoever He wills." (Haleem) This passage says that young Mary was put under the charge of Zechariah, an old man. Mary is found in a sanctuary. She receives provisions miraculously. Where does Muhammad receive this fiction? The main ideas in this passage are clearly taken from the Protevangelium of James, also titled Birth of Mary. Revelation of James or Book of James, among other titles (in The New Testament Apocrypha, vol. 1, rev. ed. by W. Schneemelcher, trans. R. McL. Wilson, Westminster / John Knox, 1991). It is not part of the New Testament canon, coming late in history and conflicting so egregiously with the unadorned Four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, all of which have apostolic attestation. The Book of James, in contrast, is a work of fiction and imagination. The apocryphal gospel says: 5.1 And she [Anna, Mary�s mother] made a sanctuary in her [Mary�s] bedchamber . . . 8.1 And Mary was in the Temple nurtured like a dove and received food from the hand of an angel . . . (New Testament Apocrypha, p. 429) In these two accounts, some of the details have been changed in the Quran, or Muhammad received a variation of the legend, but the general agreement of the two accounts is remarkable. First, the settings in a holy place match up. In the Quran, Mary lives in a sanctuary; in the pseudo-gospel, she lives first in a sanctuary at home, and then she is moved to a large sanctuary, the Temple. Second, the miracle provisions match up. The Quran says that Mary received miraculous provisions from Allah; the pseudo-gospel says an angel gave them to her. Third, as we shall see in the next comparison, the old age and calling of the two men match up. The Quran says that Zechariah, an old man, was given charge over her, while the pseudo-gospel says that Zechariah, at least for a short moment, was give charge over her (8.3). But Joseph, an old man (and future husband), will be given permanent guardianship over her, leading to marriage. Muhammad was not a scholar, so we must not see him as having dry parchments or dusty papyri manuscripts in front of him, so that he can borrow from them phrase for phrase. Rather, these stories circulated around the trade routes, being told and retold by poets and storytellers and regular folk. So some of the details change over the centuries, or Muhammad changes them (or both), but the essence or overall picture remains. The Quran in Sura 3:44 elaborates on how custody of young Mary was decided�casting lots, in the setting of some tumult among the candidates who are summoned possibly to care for her. The Quran says: 3:44 This is an account of things beyond your knowledge that We reveal to you [Muhammad]: you were not present among them when they cast lots to see which of them should take charge of Mary, you were not present when they argued [about her] . . . (Haleem) The same apocryphal gospel says that divining rods were used to decide on the custody of young Mary. This passage describes some tumult among the candidates as well. Mary receives two pseudo-miracles in Sura 19:23-26.
Sura 19 is named after Mary. According to Sura 19:16-26, Mary traveled to the east and secluded herself. An angel came and promised her a son. She conceived miraculously, and during the pains of childbirth she cries out. The Quran says: 19:23 . . . [A]nd, when the pain of childbirth drove her to cling to the trunk of the palm tree, she exclaimed, "I wish I had been long dead and forgotten before all this!" 24 but a voice cried to her from below, "Do not worry: your Lord has provided a stream at your feet 25 and, if you shake the trunk of the palm tree towards you, it will deliver fresh ripe dates for you, 26 so eat, drink, be glad . . . (Haleem) This story of miraculous deliverance through a palm tree and a stream of water comes from the Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew, or more accurately, The Book About the Origin of the Blessed Mary and the Childhood of the Savior. Muhammad alters a passage in this pseudo-gospel, or he heard an altered version of it (or both). He connects the miracle of the palm and the stream to Mary giving birth to Jesus, but the non-canonical gospel says that the baby Jesus worked the miracle. Joseph and Mary are concerned about food and water as they travel to Egypt. The infant Jesus overhears their conversation and solves their problem. The apocryphal gospel says: Then the child Jesus, who was sitting with a happy countenance in his mother�s lap, said to the palm: "Bend down your branches, O tree, and refresh my mother with your fruit." And immediately at this command [voice] the palm bent down to the feet of the blessed Mary, and they gathered from its fruit and they all refreshed themselves . . . [Addressing the palm, Jesus says:] "And open beneath your roots a vein of water . . . and let the waters flow" . . . And when they saw the fountain of water, they greatly rejoiced and quenched their thirst . . . (The New Testament Apocrypha, vol. 1, p. 463) |
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JOUBERAR ![]() Guest Group ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 March 2009 Status: Offline Points: 573 |
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Mansoor it seems to me that you just cant read properly can't you see the holy spirit is God or what else is He a unholy spirit He is the only holy spirit
and there nothing holier than God's spirit so please dont try and make short cuts to run away from the truth.
It is good that you see something realistic in the so called corrupt bible
Now if you believe in trinity then you contradict with John 17:3.
John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Notice how the Father is being referred to as THE ONLY TRUE GOD.How is it possible for the Father to be the ONLY true God, while at the same time the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well? If the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well, then it is false to say that the Father is the ONLY true God. Similarly, if we say that the Father is the ONLY true God then we can't say that anyone else (i.e. Son and Holy Spirit) is God as well. It is not possible for any one of the persons (Father, Son or Holy Spirit) to be the ONLY true God at the same time when the other two are God as well.I contend that John 17:3 is the hermeneutical key that one should use to understand all the other verses for it is unambiguous and clear.It is logically impossible for the Father who is a different person from the Son and Holy Spirit to be the only true God at the same time when the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well. |
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Mansoor_ali ![]() Senior Member ![]() Male Joined: 25 September 2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 584 |
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Here is response to above article :A Concise Rebuttal to James Arlandson's Article "Apocryphal gospels in the Quran" |
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