The Moon (Part 2)

Ron Webb wrote: Simple nonsense.

That pic is of the sun in the arctic.

Ron Webb wrote: Hipparchus[/URL] calculated it as 410,000 km (within ten percent of the true figure), using nothing but naked eye observation and trigonometry.

And you believe that calculation?

Ron Webb wrote: But you didn't answer my questions.� How can you demand proof from us when it plays no role in your own worldview?� Where is your "concrete proof" for the theory of Islam?

All I'm saying is that the current world view is false created by people who theorised and downright lied.

Ron Webb wrote: No picture is necessary.� If the earth is flat, then there is only one horizon.� When the sun sets, it would set for the entire world, not just for the Americas or just for Sharjah.

The earth is flat and shaped like an ostrich's egg. It's possible to have part of the earth in darkness and the other part in sunlight with a flat earth. As the sun moves along the earth becomes dark.

Ron Webb wrote: I don't think you have any idea what NASA is or what it does.� As I have told you several times now, NASA is not primarily responsible for our understanding of the world.� It has certainly helped to fine-tune our knowledge (thanks to them we can measure the distance of the moon to within a few millimeters!), but we understood the basics of the solar system long before NASA existed.

You love NASA because you still love their movies. You watch astounded when you see an animation about a fly-by or the robots deployed to Mars. LOL

Ron Webb wrote: The air pressure as a whole (not just oxygen) gets weaker as we go up.� It's pretty easy to extrapolate this and see that in a few thousand miles there will be essentially no atmosphere.

That's what I'm saying but there is no dividing line. For example, the ozone layer doesn't exist.

Ron Webb wrote: Where are the edges of this flat earth?� What happens if you fall off?

The edges are the ice sheets that protect the oceans. If you fall off the you'll probably float in space forever.

Ron Webb wrote: So why has no one marketed a solar powered helicopter by now?

Because the powers that be are preventing this as the oil barons have a few more years of power.

Ron Webb wrote: In other words, Muslims are all taught by the same religious books that you read.� They grow up thinking like you do and follow the status quo.Whereas scientists are taught to regard all authorities skeptically, and not simply to follow the status quo.� That's why we continually repeat past experiments, and think of new experiments, to confirm or refine our knowledge of the world.� And that's why science makes progress, while religion does not.

Religions doesn't need to progress. A person who does the basics and he has faith in his heart is enough. Whilst science imprisons man to follow a certain way, it's almost as if we are being controlled.

Ron Webb wrote: I don't want "guidance".� I want evidence.

Look around you, the creation of the heavens and the earth is just one example of the evidence you are looking for. They did not come to existence by chance.

Ron Webb wrote: Sure, but I've never seen it after it has set.

The moon does not set. It is always around.

Ron Webb wrote: I would be interested in seeing your calculations.� Is Antarctica west or east of Mecca?

Why? It is south.

Abu Loren wrote: That pic is of the sun in the arctic.

No, it's the moon, although I can understand your confusion.  As the photographer explained, "the moon was already much brighter than the surrounding landscape. In that situation, you either get a scene with a very overexposed moon or an excellent picture of the moon with no scene."

Ron Webb wrote: Hipparchus[/URL] calculated it as 410,000 km (within ten percent of the true figure), using nothing but naked eye observation and trigonometry. And you believe that calculation?

I don't need to "believe" the calculation.  I can calculate it myself; and so can you, most likely.  It's pretty simple stuff. Calling it "trigonometry" is a bit of an exaggeration.  It's really just geometry, based on similar triangles.

I am relying to some extent on his observation of the lunar eclipse, and his estimate that the earth's shadow is about 2.5 times the size of the moon.  However, I have seen many lunar eclipses myself and have noticed the curvature of the shadow's edge.  Next lunar eclipse I'll see if I can estimate it myself, but 2.5 sounds about right.

Ron Webb wrote: But you didn't answer my questions.  How can you demand proof from us when it plays no role in your own worldview?  Where is your "concrete proof" for the theory of Islam? All I'm saying is that the current world view is false created by people who theorised and downright lied.

Still didn't answer the question.  How do you know it is false?  Where is your "concrete proof"?

The earth is flat and shaped like an ostrich's egg.

An ostrich egg is not flat, so I have no idea what you're talking about here; but you might want to read this article explaining the (false) association of the Quran verse 79:30 with an ostrich egg.

It's possible to have part of the earth in darkness and the other part in sunlight with a flat earth. As the sun moves along the earth becomes dark.

But it's not possible to have sunlight if the sun is below the horizon.  If the earth is flat, then when the sun sets, it sets everywhere.

Ron Webb wrote: Where are the edges of this flat earth?  What happens if you fall off? The edges are the ice sheets that protect the oceans. If you fall off the you'll probably float in space forever.

Ice sheets?  I don't encounter ice sheets if I travel east or west.  As a matter of fact, thanks to climate change I don't necessarily encounter ice sheets if I travel north in the summer.

If I travel east long enough, I'll end up back where I started, right?  Doesn't that prove the earth is round?

Religions doesn't need to progress. A person who does the basics and he has faith in his heart is enough. Whilst science imprisons man to follow a certain way, it's almost as if we are being controlled.

The computer you are using right now is the product of scientific progress.  Does it imprison you? Or does it free you from tasks that you used to have to spend hours performing manually?  Does it control you?  Or does it empower you to offer your wisdom to people like me, half a world away?

Look around you, the creation of the heavens and the earth is just one example of the evidence you are looking for. They did not come to existence by chance.

There are countless billions of other "earths" out there that apparently serve no purpose whatsoever.  It sure looks to me like they came into existence by chance.  Why not this one as well?

The moon does not set. It is always around.

You have watched it set, night after night, and yet you deny the evidence of your own eyes.

Does the sun set?

Ron Webb wrote: I would be interested in seeing your calculations.  Is Antarctica west or east of Mecca? Why? It is south.

You were claiming that the Arabian Peninsula is the centre of the world, based on land masses east or west of Mecca.  I gather you are ignoring Antarctica in your calculations because it is south.  Are you also ignoring eastern Europe, which is north?  How about the Scandinavian countries, which are thousands of miles north but a tiny bit west as well?  How about Africa, which is mostly west but some of it is south?  How do you decide which land masses to count?  As I said, I would be interested in your calculations.

Tim the plumber wrote: The Sun is over head, or at least at it's highest at noon. This happens at different absolute times for each part of the Earth depending on how far east/west you are.That only makes sense if the Earth is rotating.The Sun is very high in the sky at noon if you live on the equator and not so high in the sky for me here in England. This only makes sense if the Earth is a sphere. The Moon also rises and falls like the Sun. It depends where it is in space and where you are on the Earth as to when you can see it.Would you like to set up an experiment where you can talk to one of us and compare where the Moon is over the phone?Also buy that telescope. �13 ebay.

Tim you wouldn't understand old boy because you've been brought up learning all the science books out there like Ron. So you'll aleays come with the same ole cr*p.

You need to think outside the box. Throw away everything you've been taught and start using your own brain, not somebody else's.


Edited by Abu Loren - 16 July 2015 at 3:07am

Abu Loren wrote: Ron Webb wrote: There are countless billions of other "earths" out there that apparently serve no purpose whatsoever.  It sure looks to me like they came into existence by chance.  Why not this one as well? Another NASA lie.

As far as I know NASA has never had anything to say about worlds beyond this solar system.  Don't you feel even a little bit guilty about calling people liars, without any justification whatsoever?  Is this really how you want to end Ramadan?

There are only 7 Earths in 7 heavens.

Where is your "concrete proof" of this?  How would you feel if I called you a liar for making such a wild and unsubstantiated statement?

The moon does not set.

I asked if the sun sets, not the moon.  And you know the answer to that because the Quran (18:86) says so.  (It also says it sets in a "muddy spring", but I won't even go there.)

My question is, when the sun sets, why is it not dark everywhere?   It is always noon somewhere on the planet.  How can that be, if the earth is flat and the sun has set?

Abu Loren wrote: You need to think outside the box. Throw away everything you've been taught and start using your own brain, not somebody else's.

Et tu, Abu.