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Jesus� new commandment
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Saladin View Drop Down
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Points: 575 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saladin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2008 at 6:30am
  No where in the Bible does God say polygamy is from Him. People in the Bible may have practiced it but that doesnt mean God told them to "marry up to 4" if it pleases you.
 
 That because, how many they wanted to marry wasnt restricted and the bible did nothing to stop it. What the bible didnt do, the quran did. Only the Quran put a restriction on the number of wives a man could take to 4 and only the Quran says marry one. And dont forget the time when the Quran first said this; it wasnt like raising the bar from 1 to 4, it was bringing it down from an infinity to 4. So it wasnt pleasant news for people then.
 
    
One of the problems with the Quran is that the author assumed that Christians associate God with partners. The simple fact is Christians believe in ONE God. The author of the Quran believed Christians believed in 3 Gods and this is quite plainly untrue. Therefore the author could not have been God. That you do not understand of accept the Truine God does not make it untrue or imposible.
 
 Father, Holy spirit, Jesus = OneGod
 
     1    +    1      +     1     =     1 ?
 
 That's why I believe that the Bible of  today is not God's word and that its author is not God.
'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2008 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by Mystical Mystical wrote:

Let me add my 2 cents worth in all this. There is a huge difference in Christians claiming the Bible as the Word of God and Muslims claiming the Quran as the God's Words. The Bible is not word for word dictated by God as Mohammad claimed for the Quran. You cannot read the Bible and take verses out of it without looking at the context it is written in. The Quran however is a collection of verses dictated word for word by God through Gabriel. If this is the case we as Christians must judge these verses according to our perception of a LOVING GOD. If these words do not compute with a loving God then we reject it and rightfully so in IMHO. god's words are timeless and should be valid for all people all times. for example if God say's polygamy is righteous than this is for all generations. However as a Christian I reject polygamy as discrimination against women therefore I reject this teaching as from God. In so doing I reject the Quran as from God.  

Christians do not however view the Bible as word for word dictated by God although we do believe it is the inerrant Word of God in that it was inspired by God and written by fallible men. Many different authors composed the Bible yet the MESSAGE of the Bible is consistent with a God who is Love and a God who wills to be loved in return. No where in the Bible does God say polygamy is from Him. People in the Bible may have practiced it but that doesnt mean God told them to "marry up to 4" if it pleases you.
 
One of the problems with the Quran is that the author assumed that Christians associate God with partners. The simple fact is Christians believe in ONE God. The author of the Quran believed Christians believed in 3 Gods and this is quite plainly untrue. Therefore the author could not have been God. That you do not understand of accept the Truine God does not make it untrue or imposible.
 
The above is only a few of many reasons why I reject the Quran as from God.
 
Peace
 
 
 
 
 
Mystical,
we have to be honest when comparing and saying what we say otherwise we will be bluffing not just to ourself but to others as well.
 
So you are admitting that the Bible is not the dictated word of God, thus its not God that is speaking to you rather someone else, another human. In truth I find it to be that way too, because many things don't cordinate rather contradict in it. That would not have been the case even if all of those who wrote it were inspired by the same (God) as you say, let alone the claim that it is the word of God.
 
You say: "If this is the case we as Christians must judge these verses according to our perception of a LOVING GOD." Let me say that the level of violance and indiscriminate killing and destruction of property and animals, portrayed in the Bible is not the qualities of a God who is not only Loving, but also is Just.
Take this quote for example: Exodus 32:27 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. 29 Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day."
 
In Islam we believe in God, the One and Only. The God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed (pbut), who does not order indiscriminate killings but declares life as sacred which must be protected and only be taken through the way of justice as if someone kills a person, only that killer be punished for his crime, not the whole people or city be destroyed. Also, if you judge yourself with your own standard, you will fail because you say: "If these words do not compute with a loving God then we reject it " while the Bible speaks of hate beside love as claimed.
Read this as an example: Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters�yes, even his own life�he cannot be my disciple.
 
As far as Christians worshipping One God, I believe that to be their true intention and that's what I believe prophet Jesus taught, but its not practiced as such except for a very small number of his followers.  Much like a Hindu who claims to believe in One God as their book preaches  but also believe in many incarnations of God and each incarnation is worshiped as god, Christians believe Jesus to be god incarnate and offer their worship to him. While in fact Jesus himself offered worship to someone, his Creator, God Almighty.
Worship, in Islam is reserved Only for One, your Creator, God Almighty and none else as taught by all of God's prophets who were sent to guide us into the right direction away from error.
Peace,
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 06 June 2008 at 4:39pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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robin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

[QUOTE=believer]

You need to be as critical with the Quran as you are the Holy Bible.  The Quran confirms the Torah and Gospel.   You can't tell GOD what to write!! 

Muslims must study the whole Bible with the understanding that it is GOD's Word, truth - some of it history, some figurative speech, some law all leading up to the gift from GOD- salvation through Jesus.
 
believer,
I feel sorry that I have read the Bible. Really, because I had more respect for the book when I had not read it.
In my study, it cannot even support the three basic  points of its teachings without contradicting them:
1- Status of God
2- Status of Jesus
3- Salvation
Let me add another one:
4- consistancy (a sure Characteristic of a divine revelation)
Hasan
 
  
 
Robin
by 1-Status of God, I mean who and what is God.
by-2 Status of Jesus, I mean who and what is Jesus.
by-3 Salvation, I mean how it is achieved. 
by-4 Consistancy, I mean no contradictions in its contents.
 
You have different believe on each one of these than 'believer'. But in general these points are presented and never proved without contradictions in their very source, the Bible unlike the Quran where all of these basic fundamantals of our belief are backed by its contents without any contradiction.
Hasan 
 
 
OFFER 2 OR 3 EXAMPLES OF THE ABOVE?
 
 
 
1 Jehovah the ONE and only Almighty God:-
Psalm 83:18
That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
 
2
The agent through whom God deals with mankind:-
Acts 5:31
God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand,. . .
 
3
The antidote to the doings of the Devil and Adam who lead mankind away from God, whereas Jesus leads manking back to worship of the only true God (John 17:3):-
 
1 Corinthians 15:22
For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.
 
1 John 3:8
For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the Devil.
 
 
 
4
The Bible has no contridictions.
Most so-called contradictions are due to a lack of understsnding what the Holy Texts mean etc..
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believer View Drop Down
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 8:40pm
Saladin - GOD's intention are right there in the beginning
 
Genesis 2
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2008 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Saladin - GOD's intention are right there in the beginning
 
Genesis 2
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
 
 
Hey beleiver,
as I have shown you most Christians and Jews love these names, as they name their children after them: David, Abraham, Solomon etc. All lived and had more than one wife. And the second wife has rights according to the Bible, God has set besides other rules, rules for protecting the rights of the second wife.
 
Exodus 21:1 "These are the laws you are to set before them:...........

:10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.

So, here we have it folks.
 
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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robin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Saladin - GOD's intention are right there in the beginning
 
Genesis 2
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
 
 
Hey beleiver,
as I have shown you most Christians and Jews love these names, as they name their children after them: David, Abraham, Solomon etc. All lived and had more than one wife. And the second wife has rights according to the Bible, God has set besides other rules, rules for protecting the rights of the second wife.
 
Exodus 21:1 "These are the laws you are to set before them:...........

:10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.

So, here we have it folks.
 
Hasan
 
Hasan that was under the Law of Moses, the prophet Jesus set matters right when he said:-
 
Matthew 19:4-6
In reply he said: "Did YOU not read that he who created them from [the] beginning made them male and female 5 and said, �For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh�? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart."
 
For the followers of Jesus:-
 
Ephesians 5:31-33
"For this reason a man will leave [his] father and [his] mother and he will stick to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This sacred secret is great. Now I am speaking with respect to Christ and the congregation. 33 Nevertheless, also, let each one of YOU individually so love his wife as he does himself; on the other hand, the wife should have deep respect for her husband.
 
1 Timothy 3:1-2
That statement is faithful. If any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is desirous of a fine work. 2 The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable, qualified to teach
 
1 Timothy 3:12
Let ministerial servants be husbands of one wife, presiding in a fine manner over children and their own households.
 
Titus 1:5-6
make appointments of older men in city after city, as I gave you orders; 6 if there is any man free from accusation, a husband of one wife, . . .
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LOL!! honeto -  That doesn't say GOD condones it.  If you must sin then at least follow these guidlines!!
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2008 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

LOL!! honeto -  That doesn't say GOD condones it.  If you must sin then at least follow these guidlines!!
 
believer,
where does in those quotes say, that if you sin then you have to follow these guidelines??
And by putting a law to protect the rights of the first wife, it is clearly understood that this was indeed an approved pratice of those who God guided in the old times. And the proof is there in what's left of the old scripture. God's choosen prophets such as Abraham did it, David did it, Solomon did it, and so many other prophets did it according to your trusted source. Do you claim to know more than them? do you claim to be a better teacher and closer to God than them? Or do you think that they were less obedient and less cleaner than you?
 
Robin,
believer has claimed that polygamy was never approved by God since the begining.
And as far as yuor quotes, they talk about the union of marraige and importance of such union, not what we are talking here.
 
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 17 June 2008 at 4:34pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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