Burden of Proof

Ron Webb posted:

If you look back in the discussion you will see that it was you, not me, who introduced the word "universe".  To me, as I said, the "universe" means everything that exists; and if God exists, then He is part of the universe.  If that isn't what you meant by the term, then I wish you would define it; but my definition does not exclude the possibility of God.

Ron,

I get that you believe that the existence of God is impossible and/or illogical. If we accept this as valid premise, there is no way I can prove the existence of God or that such a God does miracles, can I? So though you hold this belief you still ask me to prove how a particular miracle occurred. Am I missing something or do just want to see me waste my time?

Our fundamental disagreement then is over the existence of God. I contend that your belief about God not existing is subjective and arbitrary. I have given a basic argument to support my contention. I was hoping that by seeing the �error of your ways�, you would at least concede the possibility that God does exist and we could then discuss reasons for accepting the resurrection of Jesus as historical. If you refuse to respond to the fundamental argument I pose, fine. But if I am wrong, you have the opportunity to show me and refute my belief that God exists. This will effectively take care of other beliefs I have about God�s Word and miracles. Why not respond to my challenge?

I�ll try again to the fundamentals so we can know where we agree and disagree? Please let me know if you agree with the below � or please correct it so you do agree with it:

1.      Something has always existed.

2.      The Universe has not always existed.

3.      Therefore the Universe does not contain everything that exists. (Another way of saying this is there is something transcendent to the universe. This allows the possibility of �God�.)

Apollos

Apollos wrote: I get that you believe that the existence of God is impossible and/or illogical. If we accept this as valid premise, there is no way I can prove the existence of God or that such a God does miracles, can I? So though you hold this belief you still ask me to prove how a particular miracle occurred. Am I missing something or do just want to see me waste my time?

Yeah, you're missing just about everything.  When did I ever say that the existence of God is impossible?  That's exactly why I avoid the term "atheist" -- people immediately jump to that conclusion.  I personally do not believe in God, but that doesn't mean I can prove it.  It's possible I'm wrong, but in order to convince me you would need evidence.

I�ll try again to the fundamentals so we can know where we agree and disagree? Please let me know if you agree with the below � or please correct it so you do agree with it: 1.      Something has always existed. 2.      The Universe has not always existed. 3.      Therefore the Universe does not contain everything that exists. (Another way of saying this is there is something transcendent to the universe. This allows the possibility of �God�.)

First, please define "universe".

If you mean the observable, physical universe that originated in the so-called "Big Bang", then yes, there may be other things beyond its borders, but there is no theory at present that can explain how they could affect us.  If you have such a theory, I'd love to hear it -- but "it's a miracle" is no explanation.