Does God beget ?

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   There is no personal offense towards me that I am aware of.
    Two matters of explanation:
   1.)  My responses take into account that perhaps a little extra needs to be developed for the sake of others who are reading along. So you may get the feeling of "You didn't need to say all of that".
       I will try not to be too verbose.  Islamispeace is also very verbose. And as a result I do not have the time to answer everything he says. That appears to him to be his triumph in debate. So it works both ways I think. 
    2.)  I was not always a believer in Jesus. I did quite a lot of arguing myself. I do not remember hardly ANY of the arguments made against mine. What I DO remember is something someone pointed out to me was in the Bible.
  For this reason, I aways use the Bible. If some day you do meet the Lord Jesus it probably will not be because you remembered some eloquent argument of a Christian. It will probably be because the Holy Spirit will bring to your memory something said in the Bible.

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Jocko Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 September 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 179	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jocko Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 September 2007 at 5:07am
	There is no personal offense towards me that I am aware of. Two matters of explanation: 1.) My responses take into account that perhaps a little extra needs to be developed for the sake of others who are reading along. So you may get the feeling of "You didn't need to say all of that". I will try not to be too verbose. Islamispeace is also very verbose. And as a result I do not have the time to answer everything he says. That appears to him to be his triumph in debate. So it works both ways I think. 2.) I was not always a believer in Jesus. I did quite a lot of arguing myself. I do not remember hardly ANY of the arguments made against mine. What I DO remember is something someone pointed out to me was in the Bible. For this reason, I aways use the Bible. If some day you do meet the Lord Jesus it probably will not be because you remembered some eloquent argument of a Christian. It will probably be because the Holy Spirit will bring to your memory something said in the Bible.
	I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!

Jocko Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 September 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 179	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jocko Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 September 2007 at 5:12am
	I want to go back and see if I can catch up to some statements made by Islamispeace which really deserve a reply.
	I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!

islamispeace Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2187	Post Options Post Reply Quote islamispeace Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 September 2007 at 11:31am
	"There is only so much reference work I will do for you Islamispeace. If you want to reject out of hand Christian scholarship about the cassia go ahead. In my spare time I'll look up the backround information. I will not do that research now." Don't be lazy. If you are going to make a claim, you better back it up with references. What "Christian scholarship" are you referring to? All you said was that cassia was used to repel insects and snakes. That was it. I asked a legitimate question.
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

islamispeace Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2187	Post Options Post Reply Quote islamispeace Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 September 2007 at 11:34am
	"I will try not to be too verbose. Islamispeace is also very verbose. And as a result I do not have the time to answer everything he says. That appears to him to be his triumph in debate. So it works both ways I think." Lol. I am only as verbose as the person I am conversing with. The issues we are dealing with cannot be discussed in one or two sentences. My "triumph" is in the responses I make, not in whether you are able to make a quick response or not. You can take all the time you want to respond. I know I do.
	Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

Jocko Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 September 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 179	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jocko Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 September 2007 at 3:24pm
	Don't be lazy. If you are going to make a claim, you better back it up with references. What "Christian scholarship" are you referring to? All you said was that cassia was used to repel insects and snakes. That was it. I asked a legitimate question. For Cassia used to repel insects go to www.zhealthinfo.com/cassia.html. From which I quote this paragraph without permission: Cassia - Cinnamonium cassia - China - For your aromatherapy needs. - Some historical uses: May improve circulation, reduce cellulite, mood uplifting, lessen pain, increase mobility in joints, disinfectant, repel insects, stimulant (may increase contractions during childbirth) Also Used to treat tumors of the abdomen, glands, liver, stomach and throat, and other cancers. ... ...
	I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!

JasperStone Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 03 October 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 65	Post Options Post Reply Quote JasperStone Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 October 2007 at 8:33pm
	Hello, I am a Christian and this is my first post. I see that many replies have already been posted and many are long ones. I am going to go ahead and address the original post. The original post gave a definition of the Greek word for only-begotten that looks remarkably like Thayer's definition, except that something is extra and something is missing. What's extra? Thayer says nothing about sex. What's missing? The emphasis on uniqueness and the specific usage concerning Christ. Here is what Thayer says: 1) single of its kind, only 1a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents) 1b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God Monogenes is a compound of only and to become, i.e. to receive being. As used by the apostle John, it does not imply an act of begetting, nor any even of time. We cannot use this word to project the human act of begetting onto the Godhead. It speaks of the uniqueness of the Son and the unoriginated relationship between the Son and the Father. The word appears first in John 1:18: "The Only Begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father..." W.E. Vine, whose works are now in the public domain, writes that this phrase "expresses both His eternal union with the Father in the Godhead and the ineffable intimacy and love between them, the Son sharing all the Father's counsels and enjoying all His affections." I would like to write again and say more about the relationship between the Son and the Father. Right now it's getting late for me.
	For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, we shall be saved in His life, having been reconciled. (Rom 5:10)

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Post Options Post Reply Quote minuteman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 October 2007 at 10:59pm
	Good effort on the part of JasperStone. We need to understand the nature of "begotten". Is it real or is it symbolic? The dictionary people will try to accommodate all the meanings (in usage) of the word. Because a certain meaning is being used by the church, so they will give that meaning too. Let us be simple. The christians can explain the meaning of the word "begotten". It is sure that the word in use now is for the real birth of sons and daughters. The general public do not think of any spiritual begetting in daily use of the word. The matter may please be clarified. Thanks.

Jocko Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 September 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 179	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jocko Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 October 2007 at 12:05am
	Minuteman, The situation is not that simple. It is a little complicated. Here is why: 1.) The Son in eternity is the Only Begotten (John 1:18) 2.) The Only Begotten became the Firstborn or First begotten: a.) Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) b.) Firstborn in resurrection from the dead (Colossians 1:18) 3.) The saved, the redeemed follow the Son in being begotten in step 2.b. They are begotten as children and eventually sons through the resurrection of the Firstborn Son of God (John 1:12,13; 14:19; 1 Peter 1:3; Romans 8:29) I appreciate your desire to simplify the subject matter. But we who care deeply about the proper presentation of the full truth of the New Testament don't want to sacrifice important aspects the teaching in simplifying things. Let the truly interested, both Christian and Moslem, be prepared examine the Scriptures a little deeper. The question "Does God Beget?" involves a discriminating and indepth look at all the related issues to this matter. Edited by Jocko
	I am a Christian Guest at this Moslem Forum - until otherwise informed. Hello!