Does God beget ?

So to put it simply:

Can Allah beget? Yes

Does He beget? No

Israfil wrote: Questions for our Christian guest that needs to be answered 1) In contextual terms explain how "Father" is equal to "Son" since in our definition of things the father begets the son and the son is the one who is begotten, and since one is created tell me how the two are equal? 2) How is the holy Spirit related to the Son? 3) Explain how all three are equal? -There is an obvious distinction not including the names but a distinction in quality and I want to know how Christians can argue that all are equal.

I believe I answered question 1 previously in this thread. Let me try to see from your eyes to answer your point of view. You see God existing in eternity past, and one day betting a son who is also a creature. You see this creature as having a finite beginning in time, from God but not God. Is this correct?

This is not what the Bible reveals. First, you cannot project the human understanding of Father and Son onto God. And I already explained how the Greek word for only begotten, in the context it appears referring to the only Begotten Son of God, does not have the same denotation as the human act of begetting. It refers to the Son's uniqueness in His un-originated relationship with the Father. I am repeating a lot of my earlier post, but let me quote Vine again.


This leads to the second point: You must not think that the Son did not exist before His incarnation, when the man Jesus was born. The Son of God existed in eternity past in equality with God (Phil 2:6). The same is true of the Holy Spirit. All Three are eternal and all Three existed in the Godhead in eternity past in complete equality. One day, according to the Father's plan, the Holy Spirit came upon a human virgin named Mary and caused her to conceive (Luke 1:35). This was a miracle in the universe, the mingling of divinity with humanity. God in the Son was conceived as such a God-man in womb of Mary. This was possible because the human life was created in the image of the divine life for the purpose of being mingled together. This was not like trying to mix a dog and a monkey. The human life is a match for the divine life, because the Creator made it so (Gen 1:26).

So the question is not how a created being that had a finite beginning came to be equal with God. Rather, God, who is eternally triune, went through a process in the Son to become a creature, to live a perfect human life, to die an all-problem-solving death, to resurrect bodily from the dead, to ascend as a Man to the right hand of God, and to pour Himself out onto sinners to cause them to be redeemed and regenerated, and to be produced as the members of His Body, the church.


Edited by JasperStone

 

 BMZ Sahib, you have made is easy for the evngelist friends about the begetting of the holy spirit since it did not exist before the word. First there was word and later the word was begotten. Then later so many other things were begotten??? Or am I misunderstanding it?? You cannot allow so many things to be begotten, please.

 

First, you cannot project the human understanding of Father and Son onto God. And I already explained how the Greek word for only begotten in the context it appears referring to the only Begotten Son of God, does not have the same denotation as the human act of begetting

The Greeks had a different understanding of things. Obviously the translation is different from the ideas we present.

does not have the same denotation as the human act of begetting. It refers to the Son's uniqueness in His un-originated relationship with the Father

I hope you will explain the relevance of above as you can see that the "relationship" of Son denotes two persons instead of one.

The begetting is not an event of time, however remote, but a fact irrespective of time. The Christ did not become, but necessarily and eternally is the Son. He, a Person, possesses every attribute of pure Godhood

I understand the above, however you are still denoting two people and not explaining the relationship between God, Son, and Holy Spirit. I understand that the physical impression of God begetting christ is not significant, rather, the significance relies in Christ existing in infinity prior to physical actuality. However, in eternity there existed only One God unless Christians denote God under different names while existing in eternity this system is nothing more than confusing others. Tell me about the relationship [in eternity of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit] How are they one and the same? What makes them one and the same?

The Son of God existed in eternity past in equality with God (Phil 2:6).

This is a contradiction. How can something be something and exist with something? The latter denotes a separation of quality and thus, plurality. According to the Abrahamic tradition especially philosophical tradition there is no division in God. There is no separation of quality either denotative nor otherwise. The problem above is the fact that the above states the "Son existed in eternity's past in equality WITH God." This is blasphemy and utterly paganism.

The same is true of the Holy Spirit. All Three are eternal and all Three existed in the Godhead in eternity past in complete equality. One day, according to the Father's plan, the Holy Spirit came upon a human virgin named Mary and caused her to conceive (Luke 1:35). This was a miracle in the universe, the mingling of divinity with humanity. God in the Son was conceived as such a God-man in womb of Mary. This was possible because the human life was created in the image of the divine life for the purpose of being mingled together. This was not like trying to mix a dog and a monkey. The human life is a match for the divine life, because the Creator made it so (Gen 1:26).

You are constantly failing to explain their [Father, Son and Holy Spirit]. Do you understand by what I mean explaining their relationship? Explain how the Father is the Son and how the Son is the Holy Spirit and how the Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son. To help you out look up Peter Abelard he is the greatest person that explains the Trinity. Quit posting Bible verses because honestly they are not helping you I need you to stop preaching to me from the Bible and give me a logical explanation.

God, who is eternally triune

I thought God was eternally one?

Ok, here is my explanation on why the Trinity does not work

1) Regardless whether existing finitely or infinitely the Son denotes subordination to Father due to quality. If in fact we are to say that the Son is not the same quality as we have in our idea then we need to abandon the word "Son" and substitute it for something else. But to call Jesus the Son of God yet, is equal to God is problmatic.

2) The Holy Spirit is a different quality of God although Christians claim to say that God is also the Holy Spirit, this too is problematic due to Christians unable to explain the relationship of the Holy Spirit to the Son and Father.

3) Father is problematic because it denotes having subordinates[children, i.e. Jesus] again if God is not Father in our sense of the word we need to substitute it for something else. Christians cannot dodge the criticism and say "Well its not like how we think it is" this is purely tap dancing around the criticism.

4) Since the Godhead constitutes subordinates that means that there is no equality even if we see these subordinates "avatars" of God. The Son is not equal to the Father because their qualities are not the same. If Jesus the human being is held to be the Son of God and perform like a subordinate we cannot therefore claim that there is equality of Jesus and God.

5) The Holy Spirit is not equal to the Son or Father due to its different quality. The quality of the Holy spirit is unique to itself, and not Father and Son. What I mean when I say unique to itself I mean what makes it Holy Spirit. Similarly, the Father has unique-ness which only the Father can have and the Son has unique-ness only specific to the Son.

What all this means is that Christians have to explain how the Son is equal to the Father even though the Son has the quality of Son-ness that is unique to himself and not the Father and vice versa. Also explain to me how the quality of Holy Spirit [having qualities unique to itself] is the same as both Father and Son.