The Original Sin

http://christiananswers.net/q-faith/fc-warperspectives.html

Well I quoted people speaking in favour of what I feel Jesus PBUH and his followers preached, pacifism. But I gave you the source of those quotes as well. Did you expect me to educate with all that page contained, including the other side? Do you do it?

Also, I found the site respectable. Is it not?

Edited by The Saint - 26 May 2015 at 9:07am

http://www.themodernreligion.com/prophet/prophet-rao.html

Also here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/3270508/Mohammed-peace-be-upon-him-The-Prophet-Prof-K-S-Ramakrishna-Rao-A-Non-Muslim-s-Views#scribd

TheSaint wrote: My point is that if you took more time to do the research then you would be able to make complete sense about your quotes. At the very least, hopefully you wouldn't be quoting from articles that actually oppose your point of view. Where and when did I do that? Which post are you speaking about? Btw, aren't you both cribbing a bit more than is expected?

I was referring to your quotes from christiananswers.net to support your claim that war is not permitted in Christianity, when in fact the article you quoted was saying the exact opposite.

I don't know what you mean by "cribbing".  If you mean plagiarism, then no, I haven't plagiarized anything.  Which post are you speaking about?

Errr.......didn't you read the source that I added for my quote or rather quotes?

Of course I did.  Your source doesn't say where they got the quote, other than "Clement of Alexandria", which doesn't appear to be correct.  As I explained, it was more likely Hippolytus of Alexandria.

In the end and after all what are you saying? That Christianity has two sides, a pacifist and an activist side.

No, he is saying that while some have argued for pacifism, "the pacifist position is unrealistic".  Read the conclusion of the article.

Ok, so which side are you on? And why? I would go any day with what Jesus PBUH said.

Well, I'm not a Christian so I don't really have a side.

http://christiananswers.net/q-faith/fc-warperspectives.html Well I quoted people speaking in favour of what I feel Jesus PBUH and his followers preached, pacifism. But I gave you the source of those quotes as well. Did you expect me to educate with all that page contained, including the other side? Do you do it?

I would not lift one or two quotes out of an article in a way that implies the opposite of what the article intended.  It's misleading.

Also, I found the site respectable. Is it not?

I'm not sure what you mean by "respectable"; but if you mean credible, then on the basis of this one article I would have to say no.  The article does not list its sources, and I've already shown that two of the three quotes I checked are misattributed and/or significantly modified from the original.  I would therefore be wary of any other facts that this author presents.

No, that does not sound like a true Muslim at all. But let me ask who told you that it was Osama Bin Laden who masterminded that 9/11 attack? CNN, BBC, Skynews? Who? What is the proof that he did it?

Bin Laden himself admitted it.  Even if we disregard this confession, surely it is without dispute that he was the head of Al Qaeda, and Al Qaeda was responsible for the attack.

I do not really know whether he understood Christianity or not. But he was most evil man on earth and he was born to Christian parents. Right? But I do believe he wished to take revenge against Jews who he thought had murdered Jesus PBUH?

Hitler wasn't taking revenge for Jesus.  He was eliminating a supposedly inferior race from the earth.  He was motivated by eugenics, not religion.

The Saint wrote: Let this article be for a moment and tell me what in your opinion is the correct position of Christianity about War?

I think Jesus was very clear in his Sermon on the Mount: "But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also."  But then, I don't think that Christianity is a "correct position" in itself, so I'm not sure how relevant that is.

Do you notice a reluctance and caution in the above conditions laid down for starting a war? Will you say that the US and allies adopt these constraints?

We would have to talk about a specific war, I think; but in general, I don't know of any nation that adopts those constraints consistently.  Do you?

Ok, this is from BBC: Clement of Alexandria wrote "...he who holds the sword must cast it away and that if one of the faithful becomes a soldier he must be rejected by the Church, for he has scorned God." http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/christianethics/war.shtml

Yup, the BBC is normally a very reputable source.  Unfortunately, where religion is concerned, all journalistic standards seem to fly out the window.

I understand that until Constantine came on the scene Christianity WAS pacifist.

Probably.  Most ideas are pacifist when they are weak, but are apt to change their character when they become strong.  Salman Rushdie said something to that effect in The Satanic Verses.

Yes, that is what he concludes. But do you deny that there is a debate on in the Christian world between the Pacifist view and the Just War.

What do you mean by "the Christian world"?  The Western world (if that's what you mean) is primarily secular.  But yes, there is frequent debate between the pro- and anti-war factions.

You are not! Why does this happen so often? After I have been debating with a person for sometime he keeps answering, demonstrating knowledge about Christianity but at some point this person claims that he is not a Christian!

I don't know.  Maybe you should be more careful in making unwarranted assumptions.  I have knowledge of many religions, Christianity and Islam included; but I never claimed to be Christian.

So, if you are not I am sure you know what Jesus PBUH said on this subject?

I know what the Bible says that he said.

What does his admission amount to? Can anyone state with dead certainty that the man who delivered that video speech was Bin Laden? Btw, do you know the history of Bin Laden, again the history we have been told? I would also like to ask you, who or what is Al Qaeda just as I would like to know who or what is ISIS? Do you have any other means besides the western media for information and knowledge?

Can anyone say anything with dead certainty?  It's an interesting epistemological question, but not one I want to get into here.  All I'll say is that it certainly looked like Bin Laden; and if it wasn't him, I kinda think he would have issued a swift denial.  I have more reason to be confident that Bin Laden was the author of that videotape than you have to be confident that Allah is the author of the Quran.

My point is that we only get know what we are told by, what I must say, is captive media. Therefore, what we read in Newspapers and see on TV is manufactured news decided upon by some people whom we do not know but are definitely there playing games with their own people but also others.

Which is exactly how I feel about the Quran.  (Not to mention the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Book of Mormon, and all the others.)

Hitler viewed the church as an important politically conservative influence on society,[370> and he adopted a strategic relationship with it that "suited his immediate political purposes".[367> In public, Hitler often praised Christian heritage and German Christian culture, though professing a belief in an "Aryan Jesus", one who fought against the Jews.[371>

Exactly.  He used it when it suited his immediate political purposes.

However, I agree that such a person could not be a pious believer of Jesus PBUH.

In other words, not a Christian.  I'm glad we have established that.