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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2012 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by peacemaker peacemaker wrote:

Caringheart:

Please ask your questions in �Islam for non-Muslim section� or discuss religious issues in details in the �Interfaith section.� I suggest you read the guidelines in entirety and comply with:

Guidelines

Peace



Question  I've not asked any questions... only responded to what has been written back to me.  Confused
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Nausheen View Drop Down
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Points: 4251 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nausheen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2012 at 12:36am
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

Originally posted by Nausheen Nausheen wrote:

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


but there is no help for one who makes that pronouncement, then begins learning about Islam and changes his mind.  I think one should be able to learn about Islam first before making such a declaration, not the other way around.  That makes a cult, or a gang, not a religion... when one is allowed in but not out.  It means there are secrets to hide that they are afraid to have revealed.  This can not be God's working.
mho
 
Plain truth ... spoken in a manner that leaves me attacked!
 
Sorry dear, but your choice of words (in your truth) are going to disappoint you for a very long time before you say something that sounds like 'our' truth.
 
 I had a similar take on Chrysalis' comment - In my opinion too, one should first learn Islam, then pronounce the 'shahada'. But as  I scrolled down to your comment, I was taken aback! Quite offensive - congratulations!!
 


Please explain.  How do you feel attacked?  It is not my intention and so ask that you forgive the offense from one who just does not understand your way.

Please explain how it is an attack to express one's opinion?  Is that not what these forum's are for?  Just because the opinion is not liked does not make it an attack.  I have had many people, many times, say things that I do not like but they are entitled to their opinion and it helps me to better understand their way of thinking.  Is that not the purpose of communicating one's beliefs and opinions?  to further understanding?  They may challenge my thinking when they wish to do so and I must accept it.  If i choose to, and I do, I must ponder it and take into consideration another's view on the matter.  Just as I am taking into consideration your view that you have been attacked.  I would not know had you not expressed it.  I disagree with you but I still care that you feel attacked rather than challenged to deepen your thinking.

I am sincere in what I write here.  I do hope it is taken the way it is meant.
Salaam
 
Here is my explaination.
 
Cairingheart: "but there is no help for one who makes that pronouncement, then begins learning about Islam and changes his mind."
 
Ideally if one goes to say the shahada infront of the Imam, he (the imam) is to make sure this person knows how to perform ritual ablution and pray. This is because as soon as one is a muslim 5 daily prayers become obligatory on him.
So, one is supposed to understand the integrals of prayer, which means one should know why he is praying. Then, on top of that, like said by others, one should have faith in what one pronounces - which means one knows ALL of Islam, otherwise one does not know what it entails to pronounce the shahada.
 
Anyone who says ...  go and take witness and you've become muslim, without caring about the above does not know Islam well.
 
If you know just this about Islam that one should pronounce some words and join the club - you dont know about islam.
 
Given this fact, which is quiet apparent from your opening statement - it is followed by,
"That makes a cult, or a gang, not a religion... when one is allowed in but not out.  It means there are secrets to hide that they are afraid to have revealed.  This can not be God's working."
 
This statement implies Islam is a cult or a gang, with secrets to hide. And we are afraid of revealing them. - presuming, untrue and offensive.
 
I take offense when anyone calls my religion a cult or a gang!
 
If you ask questions I have nothing to hide. But if things are presumed and conclusions made without asking Qs -  you are entitled to your opinions, but dont be surprised if those opinions are treated as rude.
 
Having said that ... had you just said "but there is no help for one who makes that pronouncement, then begins learning about Islam and changes his mind.  I think one should be able to learn about Islam first before making such a declaration, not the other way around." followed by "shouldn't this be the case? - I want to know"
 
I would not have had any problem with that. Rather would have loved to respond with a clarification.


Edited by Nausheen - 03 July 2012 at 12:40am
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR]
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


but there is no help for one who makes that pronouncement, then begins learning about Islam and changes his mind.  I think one should be able to learn about Islam first before making such a declaration, not the other way around.  That makes a cult, or a gang, not a religion... when one is allowed in but not out.  It means there are secrets to hide that they are afraid to have revealed.  This can not be God's working.
mho


I think I have said this before, and it is a quote of someone else;
"Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing."
It is when people need to hide things that distrust of them, or that thing, is created.


Yes, so go ahead and learn about Islam before you convert. Nobody is asking you to make a commitment when u are not ready! The verbal declaration need not be in public. A non-muslim could try Islam, learn and if it does not seem like the religion for them, they can not be Muslim. Whats so difficult abt that?

Who said u cant learn before the declaration? Take as long as you want. Nobody is stopping you. So I don't know why you are getting so worked up. Relax.


"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 July 2012 at 11:06pm
Originally posted by Chrysalis Chrysalis wrote:


Yes, so go ahead and learn about Islam before you convert. Nobody is asking you to make a commitment when u are not ready! The verbal declaration need not be in public. A non-muslim could try Islam, learn and if it does not seem like the religion for them, they can not be Muslim. Whats so difficult abt that?

Who said u cant learn before the declaration? Take as long as you want. Nobody is stopping you. So I don't know why you are getting so worked up. Relax.
 
LOL - your response made me smile.
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Points: 2033 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chrysalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 July 2012 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:

Originally posted by Chrysalis Chrysalis wrote:


Yes, so go ahead and learn about Islam before you convert. Nobody is asking you to make a commitment when u are not ready! The verbal declaration need not be in public. A non-muslim could try Islam, learn and if it does not seem like the religion for them, they can not be Muslim. Whats so difficult abt that?

Who said u cant learn before the declaration? Take as long as you want. Nobody is stopping you. So I don't know why you are getting so worked up. Relax.
 
LOL - your response made me smile.


I'm glad! Smile  Smiling is good for us. In Islam, Smiling is an act of charity.
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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