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fredifreeloader View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredifreeloader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 12:17pm
im glad you picked that up ahmad, the choice of words was deliberate.  you need to think about the differences in what the two systems are proposing.  i do not believe they can be compared, they can only be judged with reference to their own aims and objectives.  any comment on the hadithic reference i gave would be welcome
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 12:22pm

Originally posted by fredifreeloader fredifreeloader wrote:

this establishment is called "pascha", which in many languages is the word for easter or passover.  it is, i understand the russian orthodox word for easter.  i dread to think what pandemonium would have ensued if they had called it "eid"

You are correct p�scha is actually Greek for Passover.  The Eastern Orthodox Church uses it as Easter.  Its interesting they use it for Brothel in Germany.  I wonder what the word means IN GERMAN.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 1:09pm

Well, What's your point about hadithic reference. I couldn't get it?  On what aspect of it do you want me to comment, though I am simply not qualified to explain  the ahadith literature in isolation? This is simply because of its peculier nature. Nevertheless, here is the referred hadith:

 Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139:

Narrated Abdullah:

We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women with us. So we said "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you."



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Angela Angela wrote:

Originally posted by fredifreeloader fredifreeloader wrote:

this establishment is called "pascha", which in many languages is the word for easter or passover.  it is, i understand the russian orthodox word for easter.  i dread to think what pandemonium would have ensued if they had called it "eid"

You are correct p�scha is actually Greek for Passover.  The Eastern Orthodox Church uses it as Easter.  Its interesting they use it for Brothel in Germany.  I wonder what the word means IN GERMAN.

Oh! In this way one can easily look at the word "mecca" where Muslims now have to make sure that they write "Mekkha" to distinguish it as their holy city than from the brothel. But obviously all are not so carefull, including myself. But can this really make both as same. I don't think so. But ofcourse there is no dearth of extremists, and certain Muslims are obviously no exception to it.

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fredifreeloader View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredifreeloader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 1:37pm
angela - in german it means "pasha", but figuratively it means "male chauvinist", as in "den Pascha spielen" - "to act the lord and master"
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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fredifreeloader View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredifreeloader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 1:41pm

no ahmad, he allowed them to marry a woman temporarily -

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhar i/060.sbt.html

for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 2:09pm

Says who?? The text of the hadith needs to be looked at without the "()" understanding of the translator, first. Its explanation comes after wards. Isn't it?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mishmish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2006 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by fredifreeloader 
<P>you are also not taking into account the fact that islam and christianity do not <EM>propose</EM> the same thing.  islam claims to cover all aspects of life, <EM>social and governmental</EM>.  christianity does not include the governmental, unless in the context of the church.  you may point out the failures of christians, and rightly so, but i am pointing out the miserable failure of islam to fulfill its promises, which have never been carried out.  in this site it is obvious to me that noone is even sure what these promises are, in the social and governmental sphere</P>
<P>[/QUOTE fredifreeloader

you are also not taking into account the fact that islam and christianity do not propose the same thing.  islam claims to cover all aspects of life, social and governmental.  christianity does not include the governmental, unless in the context of the church.  you may point out the failures of christians, and rightly so, but i am pointing out the miserable failure of islam to fulfill its promises, which have never been carried out.  in this site it is obvious to me that noone is even sure what these promises are, in the social and governmental sphere

[/QUOTE wrote:

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." 

This verse was used in another thread here

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." 

This verse was used in another thread here to discribe Jesus. Apparently someone was supposed to unite government and religion, a task also believed to be part of the job of the Messiah of Judaism.

I think the difference between Islam and Christianity in this respect is that Muslims actually do try to have Islam cover all aspects of life.

In early Islam the practice of Muta'a was allowed. But The Prophet forbade it later as it did not meet the criteria of marriage revealed in the Quran. Once something was revealed in the Quran, the old practices were forbidden.

I think this is also the case in Christianity: eating pork, turning the other cheek, etc...

I'm not really sure what you are objecting to. There are some Muslims in Egypt and Saudi practicing something that most scholars and the Islamic world  have said are not correct. This is an innovation of the religion and a sin.

 

 



Edited by Mishmish
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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