Free Will

Ahmad Joyia, Maryga and Shans Zaman,

Well, I did ask.

Thanks very much for your considerate and fulsome answers?

I can't share your conclusions, but I have learned a great deal about your faith. And I think your answers, essentially that 'determinism' and 'free will' both exist, interact and interchange. I appreciate that you can't accept my interpretation but agreement would require a 'leap of faith' I can't make.

A story about 'Faith'.

A young man once complained to his priest about the poverty, starvation and other cruelties in the world. And said that God would not permit it, therefore there was no God. The priest said that in order to have faith in God the young man must pray. And got the answer, "How can I pray without faith"? 

Dear Tim!

This is a very common question asked as to why is there so much of pain and starvation? Well this is also for a test. If Allah has given someone wealth it is for his test that whether he spends it for the needy and poor or just keeps it to himself. Quran addresses this issue in great detail:

2:264, �O you who believe! do not make your charity worthless by reproach and being harsh (in asking for return), like him who spends his property just to be seen by other people and does not believe in Allah and the last day; so his parable is as the parable of a smooth rock with earth upon it, then a heavy rain falls upon it, so it leaves it bare (washing away all his good deeds); they shall not be able to gain anything of what they have earned; and Allah does not guide the unbelieving people.

2:267. O you who believe! spend (benevolently) of the good things that you earn and or what We have brought forth for you out of the earth, and do not aim at disposing off the bad things in charity, of which you would not take it yourselves except with disdain, and know that Allah is Self-sufficient, Praiseworthy.

2:268. Shaitan (devil) threatens you with poverty and enjoins you to be miser, and Allah promises you forgiveness and His blessings in abundance; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing�.

Also in Chapter-104, �1. Woe to every slanderer, defamer, 2. Who amasses his wealth and then keep it counting (with an aim to increasing it); 3. He thinks that his wealth will make him immortal. 4. Nay! he shall most certainly be hurled into the crushing disaster, 5. And what will make you realize what the crushing disaster is? 6. It is the fire kindled by Allah, 7. Which leaps over above the hearts....�

Brother, this life is not an end in itself but provides us with means to achieve an end. That end of which has no limits, where there will be no misery or pain so if you still thank Allah even in misery then you pass the test.

As said in, 3:186 �You shall certainly be tested respecting your wealth/property and your lives, and you shall certainly hear from those who have been given the Book before you and from those who are polytheists very painful and annoying things; and if you remain patient and guard (against evil), surely these are among most steadfast affairs�.

2:155. �And We will most certainly try you with fear(of enemy) and hunger and loss of property and lives and fruits/crops; and give good news to those who remain patient�. 

�Do you think that you would enter the heaven while the state of those who passed away before you has not yet come upon you; distress and affliction befell on them and they were shaken violently....� (2:214)

29:2-3 �Do people think that they will be left away only on saying, We believe, and they will not be tested? 3. And certainly We tried those before them, so Allah will certainly judge who are true (believers) and those who are liars�.

Shams Zaman

29:2-3 �Do people think that they will be left away only on saying, We believe, and they will not be tested? 3. And certainly We tried those before them, so Allah will certainly judge who are true (believers) and those who are liars�.

Shams Zaman

That is the point of the 'story', but told by a man.

Dear Zaman,

Thanks

What I am saying is: That the 'story' I told, was told by a man. I was making the point that if a person has no faith in God they can not  pray or be expected to pray as they are requested or instructed, because they do not have faith. Some may pray just for show, or because they want to fit in with the community. 

My 'story' made a similar point to the verses 2-3 of Quran from Chapter 29 (sura 29) that you quoted. But my 'story' was "told by a man" - me!

I hope I have made myself clear.

Best wishers

P.s Why should the Pope in Rome, the rulers Saudi Arabia, or the great Gurus of India live in fabulous wealth and tell the poor to suffer as a "test."  Your faith enables you to accept this. I have no such faith and cannot accept this as just.