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Jesus� new commandment

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yuzasaf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yuzasaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2008 at 2:10pm

Does anybody speak Hungarian here?

Besz�l itt valaki magyarul?
 
Yuz Asaf
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relaxjack View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relaxjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2008 at 8:18am
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by relaxjack relaxjack wrote:

1) How can Jesus tell his followers to love your enemies yet call his enemies by degradable names and condemned them to hell? Is that not a hypocrotical act?
I don't think so.  Have you never said angry words to someone you love? 
Yes. But I dont call them by degradable names. According to the bible, Jesus called his enemies, the people whom you said he 'loved', snakes, vipers and children of the devil. Should Christians follow the footsteps of the biblical Jesus by 'loving' their enemies but call them childrean of the devil?
 
Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

As for condemning them to hell, I think Christians would tell you that it is their own actions that condemn them, not Jesus.
So, are you saying it is right to advocate loving your enemies, on the one hand, and condemning the same people to jehanna, on the other?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2008 at 7:18am
I was going to start a new topic for this, but I may not have time to pursue it so for now I'll just reply briefly here:
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Perhaps you could point out what you feel is a true contradiction in the Quran.
I'm not sure where you got the list you are quoting from, but here is a link to a pretty good discussion of whether disbelieving parents should be treate with love: http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/disbelieving_parents.html.  There are several passages that suggest that they should, and several that suggest otherwise.  I don't see how they can all be true.  In particular, it explains that the Arabic word "auliya" means more than just "protector".  It also implies friendship and affection -- otherwise sura 10:62 refers to "protectors of Allah", which would be silly.
 
Actually I made reference to a couple of suras in my previous message that suggest a more fundamental contradiction, though I mangled the message a bit.  As you have asserted in several other discussions, according to the Quran God gives us free will and holds us responsible for our choices; and yet sura 14:4 says that "Allah makes whom He pleases err and He guides whom He pleases", and sura 10:100 says that "And it is not for a soul to believe except by Allah's permission."  So if I don't believe in Allah, is that my doing or His?  If I end up in Hell as a result, is that my fault or His?


Edited by Ron Webb - 10 May 2008 at 7:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2008 at 5:04am
Don't the contradictions show up between the Medina and Mecca verses?
Doesn't the Quran say that Allah sends a better verse and one is no longer in use- or something like that?
 
We are straying off topic LOL!! so easy to do on these threads.
 
Think of GOD as a loving parent- as a parent don't you make rules that you might not follow because your situation is different then your child's?
 
As a parent don't you punish!?!
 
I would think that GOD has the right to make any rule He wants over His creation!
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2008 at 2:29am
"Oh, sure you do.  I don't want to digress, but just Google "Quran contradictions" and you'll find dozens, maybe hundreds."
 
I actually did just that and the sites I found had lists of verses that were interpreted incorrectly but no contradictions.
 
For example, one list stated that these are a contradiction:
 
17:23 Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour.
 
and
 
9:23 O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.
 
What is the contradiction here? You can be kind to your parents even if they are not Muslims without taking them for protectors.
 
Or:
 

79:27 What! Are ye the more difficult to create or the heaven (above)? ((Allah)) hath constructed it:


 

79:28 On high hath He raised its canopy, and He hath given it order and perfection.


 

79:29 Its night doth He endow with darkness, and its splendour doth He bring out (with light).


 

79:30 And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);

and
 
2:29 It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.
 
I'm not even sure what the contradiction is suppose to be here. That one mentions the earth first and one mentions the heavens first, but neither mention which Allah created first, just that He created both....
 
 
 
Perhaps you could point out what you feel is a true contradiction in the Quran.


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 10 May 2008 at 2:31am
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2008 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by relaxjack relaxjack wrote:

1) How can Jesus tell his followers to love your enemies yet call his enemies by degradable names and condemned them to hell? Is that not a hypocrotical act?
I don't think so.  Have you never said angry words to someone you love?  As for condemning them to hell, I think Christians would tell you that it is their own actions that condemn them, not Jesus.
 
Personally, I've never understood why a loving God would create a horrible place like hell anyway, especially the God Himself causes people to disbelieve and go astray (see Sura 10:100, 14:4, etc.).
 
Quote 3) You do not see such contradictions in the Quran.
Oh, sure you do.  I don't want to digress, but just Google "Quran contradictions" and you'll find dozens, maybe hundreds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relaxjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2008 at 1:20am
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

You forget Jesus is GOD and GOD makes the rules for us to follow.    
 

An enemy to GOD would be one who is not righteous, possibly a follower of satan/devil-because of GOD's Holiness they can not be in the presence of GOD.

 
God hates treachery, violence, cruelty, callused hypocrisy all the things that knowingly destroy people, community, safety, trust, joy and innocence. 
 
What the bible writers did was to make Jesus looks like a hypocrite:
 
hypocrite
      n 1: a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she
           does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings
           or motives [syn: hypocrite
 
1) How can Jesus tell his followers to love your enemies yet call his enemies by degradable names and condemned them to hell? Is that not a hypocrotical act?
 
2) btw, Christians believe Jesus was fully man and fully God (which was a contradiction in terms), and what Jesus was reported to have said in the bible would be construed as 'divine' commandments. The bible says Jesus  calls the Pharisees 'hypocrites' (Matt 6:2,5,16) but his action, according to the bible writers, makes him a hypocrite as well.
 
3) You do not see such contradictions in the Quran.
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honeto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2008 at 9:22am
'believer' writes:
"You forget Jesus is GOD...."
believer you forgot, that is your un-established claim only.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 08 May 2008 at 9:26am
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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