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StephenC 
Guest Group
Joined: 16 September 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 264
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 Posted: 10 October 2006 at 7:06pm |
 Servetus wrote:
| The stench of pagan worship can not be removed by fire or other cleansing. |
What do you suggest? In his day, Jesus is said to have done a remarkable job of cleansing the by then degenerate Temple with merely a scourge and a good deal of righteous indignation. Soon thereafter, according, as I understand, to generally accepted Christian prophecy, the Romans, by way of Titus in 70 C.E., leveled the Temple itself, effectively leaving no stone unturned.
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I suggest a new non-recycled temple.
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StephenC
Guest Group
Joined: 16 September 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 264
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Posted: 10 October 2006 at 7:08pm |
Suleyman wrote:
StephenC wrote:
The praying towards Mecca is offensive. In the pure Quran, there is no command specifying Mecca. The stench of pagan worship can not be removed by fire or other cleansing. The praying towards the rock has lead people away from praying to God who is everywhere. Pray to God, not to any rock, temple, or city. God is everywhere.
Remember God is the only true God, there are no other real gods worthy or unworthy to worship. Do not even acknowledge the existance of the false gods.
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Stephen,believe that you are killing me!,Eddie Murphy is more serious than you...
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You find humor is the correct way to worship God?
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Suleyman
Senior Member
Joined: 10 March 2003
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 3324
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Posted: 10 October 2006 at 10:28pm |
Who said that i do worship to God with it...you all look from negative sides please be normal....
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StephenC
Guest Group
Joined: 16 September 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 264
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Posted: 11 October 2006 at 3:39am |
In addition to the aforementioned problems, Islam seems to have more myths and legends then the other religions.
That is why I think it is very important to follow the "pure Quran" (as pure as it can be considering the rewriting, editing, clarifying, translating, etc.).
Muhammad may have been a messenger from God, however we can not tell for certain what that message is.
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air_one
Newbie
Joined: 23 September 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 35
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Posted: 11 October 2006 at 6:05am |
StephenC wrote:
In addition to the aforementioned problems, Islam seems to have more myths and legends then the other religions. |
These aforementioned problems are all in your head. You have not brought up anything problematic to me in this thread yet. Most muslims will agree insya-Allah. Sure there are problems amongst muslims but there is not a problem in Islam.
StephenC wrote:
That is why I think it is very important to follow the "pure Quran" (as pure as it can be considering the rewriting, editing, clarifying, translating, etc.). |
Ill say it again. There is only one quran out there.
StephenC wrote:
Muhammad may have been a messenger from God, however we can not tell for certain what that message is. |
Its very clear to me what his message is.
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Servetus
Senior Member
Male
Joined: 04 April 2001
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2109
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Posted: 11 October 2006 at 9:23am |
StephenC,
Thank you for responding. You are (still) quoted below.
Quote:
| Go to islamicity.com (this website) and use the Quran search. Enter the word "Mecca" (you can also try other spellings of it. See if you can find where the Quran says to pray in the direction of Mecca (or other spelling). Since we are discussing the "Pure Quran" please ignore the "clarifications" which have been added and are indicated by brackets. | | |
Right. Done. You will please excuse me if I didn�t follow your instructions exactly as written, but I would now, in return, ask that you note the following Quranic excerpt and satisfactorily answer what, in accepted Islamic tradition, is meant by �the sacred mosque� and where that mosque is located (2:141):
"The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say: To Allah belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight. Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful. We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction [bold emphasis added]." (Quran, 2:142-144 Y. Ali)
Quote:
| I suggest a new non-recycled temple. | | |
Your suggestion is probably too radical for this board. Unless and until God instructs Abraham (with Ishmael) to build and consecrate another Kaaba, the one which is standing and which was purified of idolatry by Muhammad during his lifetime will probably remain the focus of attention and the direction of the qibla for quite some time.
Best regards,
Serv
Edited by Servetus
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Dzul
Newbie
Male
Joined: 12 September 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 24
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Posted: 11 October 2006 at 4:55pm |
Assallamualaikum warahmatullahiwabarakahtu...
How can you convince someone that do not believe in the Quran? Mr Stephen do not believe that our Quran is authentic... Na'uzubillah!!! He is truely blasphemous. Why can't he see, even after many blasphemous remarks that he has thrown to us, all the answers that he gotten was delivered with restrain and controlled manner... At least acknowledge that and move on... There is no need to further disturb us. We are not even forcing our views on him. If Stephen do not believe in Islam, so be it... Just live peacefully and have a great life however he defines it...It is very clear to all of us through all the explainations from my brothers and sisters in Islam about the matter.
Mr Stephen will always come out with something pretending that he is seeking the truth? But he can never accept the truth. But that's ok... Move on Mr Stephen, you cannot find anything here anymore... Do not be angry with us that we have accepted Islam. We are not angry that you have not embrace any faith. Well whatever it is you are going to grave alone with whatever you disbelieve.
Many Muslim brothers and sisters had attempt to answer him and without fail he will come up with something utterly ridiculous to make us angry, then he would say that we are intolerant and having a violent disposition. Doesn't Stephen aware that by being a Non-Muslim he is a guest in this all Muslim forum. How would he feel if we go to his whatever faith forum he operates and post the same nonsense that he is posting here?
Obviously he rejected everything about religion. He is using this to pacify his state of mind which I see as on the fringe of insanity.
If he could be reasoned with, enlightened Muslims like Sister Fatimah would have answered him. But I think she had seen that he is beyond help from any of us.
Please stop all this nonsense Mr Stephen... We are not angry if you do not accept Islam... It is really ok. But firing us up by posting irresponsibly here shows how intolerant you are with other religion. That's why I quoted the surah "Al-Kafirun" to you earlier...
Peace Mr Stephen...
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StephenC
Guest Group
Joined: 16 September 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 264
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Posted: 12 October 2006 at 1:09pm |
Servetus wrote:
StephenC,
Right. Done. You will please excuse me if I didn�t follow your instructions exactly as written, but I would now, in return, ask that you note the following Quranic excerpt and satisfactorily answer what, in accepted Islamic tradition, is meant by �the sacred mosque� and where that mosque is located (2:141):
"The fools among the people will say: "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say: To Allah belong both east and West: He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight. Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful. We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction [bold emphasis added]." (Quran, 2:142-144 Y. Ali)
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So are you saying that there is only one sacred Mosque? Are not all Mosque sacred? If the point is that there is only one sacred Mosque, then where does the Quran say that it is the old pagan temple in Mecca? I for one believe that all temples/Mosque/churches that are not paganistic are sacred.
Could it have possibly meant that the true believer should face towards "the sacred Mosque" of their community? Back then the navigational skills were not that precise. Even today with GPS and high tech equipment there is still margins of error. What, assuming that believer's should pray towards Mecca, if they are off by even one degree? Would their prayers "miss the mark" and not be heard by God?
What about the Muslims on the other side of the world? Shouldn't they pray towards the ground since that would be the shortest distance for their prayers to travel? Or do prayers not penetrate the ground and are more like radio waves?
If one is in the Kabah (Kaaba) is the direction pointless? On my trips to the Middle East the airplane had a computer screen which had an indicator as to which way was Mecca. I asked the Flight Attendant (a Muslim) if that took into consideration that we were flying at over 35,000 feet and should I pray in a downward direction? She was unable to answer.
I am not trying to be disrespectful towards other people's beliefs, I am just pointing out some of the issues. However, if what is really meant is that a believer prayed in the direction of their community (or closest) Mosque, that seems a little more practical and "do-able." Mybe that is why the Quran does not specify Mecca.
I realize the economical value to Mecca of making Mecca a pilgram center. It would be nothing otherwise.
But this is not about tourism, it is about God.
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