For StephenC

"In the last two decades a controversy has arisen over the period in which the text of Muslim scripture became codified. The traditional Islamic view can be summarized as follows.^[1] Both Abu Bakr (A.H. 11-13 / A.D. 632-34) and `Umar (13-23 / 634-44) made efforts to gather together the scraps of revelation that had been written down by the faithful during the lifetime of the Prophet, on bones, on palm leaves, on potsherds, and on whatever other materials were at hand, as well as being preserved in "the breasts of men."<sup>[2]</sup> But it was the third caliph, `Uthman (23-35 / 644-61), who first charged a small group of men at al-Madinah with codifying and standardizing the text. Alarmed by reported divergences in the recitation of the revelation, he commissioned one of the Prophet's former secretaries, Zayd b. Thabit, and several prominent members of Quraysh - `Abd Allah b. al-Zubayr, Sa`id b. al-`As, and `Abd al-Rahman b. al-Harith are those most often mentioned - to produce a standard copy of the text, based on the compilation in the keeping of Hafsah, daughter of `Umar. If there was disagreement over language among members of the commission, it was to be resolved in accordance with the dialect spoken by Quraysh. Once the standard text had been established, several copies were made and sent to major cities in the Islamic domain, specifically Damascus, al-Basrah, al-Kufah, and perhaps others. Although there are variations in detail, for example, in the list of names of those who served on `Uthman's commission and in the list of cities to which copies were sent, this basic outline is not in dispute within the Muslim world."

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Dome_Of_The_R ock/Estwitness.html

The Kaaba:

"The present dimensions of the Kaba are as follows:

Northern wall 11.03 meters
Southern wall 11.28 meters
Eastern wall 12.70 meters
Western wall 12.04 meters"

http://www.kokaniz.com/holykaaba.html

Pretty poor construction for something that is supposed to be the most sacred structure to God.

We all should know the paganistic history of the site (we can rehash it if someone does not recall it).

"The city of Mecca achieved its major religious significance following the birth and life of the Prophet Muhammed (570-632AD). In 630 Muhammad took control of Mecca and destroyed the 360 pagan idols, with the notable exception of the statues of Mary and Jesus. The idol of Hubal, the largest in Mecca, was a giant stone situated atop the Ka�ba. Following the command of the Prophet, Ali (the cousin of Muhammad) stood on Muhammad�s shoulders, climbed to the top of the Ka�ba and toppled the idol."

http://www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/saudi_arabia/mecca.ht ml

How many times has the site been destroyed by nature (God) or man?

What is the real physical differences between the pagan temple and the present temple (other than the numerous rebuildings)?

Wasn't Hajj pilgrimage also a paganistic ritual?

What did Muhammad do to "purify" the pagan temple?

Wasn't the "black stone" also a paganistic item?

(What is it about Islam and stones or rocks?)

Aren't the Kaaba lined up with the solstice and the star Canopus in similiar fashion as the paganistic Druid's temples?

And what is the "barakah" of the site?  Isn't that something like a "lucky charm."  What is the Qu'ran position on charms?

StephenC wrote: The Kaaba: "The present dimensions of the Kaba are as follows: Northern wall 11.03 meters Southern wall 11.28 meters Eastern wall 12.70 meters Western wall 12.04 meters" http://www.kokaniz.com/holykaaba.html   Pretty poor construction for something that is supposed to be the most sacred structure to God.

Amazing. Our resident investigator of 30 years is so tongue tied he is only able to pretend that his opinion is worth anything.

We all should know the paganistic history of the site (we can rehash it if someone does not recall it).   "The city of Mecca achieved its major religious significance following the birth and life of the Prophet Muhammed (570-632AD). In 630 Muhammad took control of Mecca and destroyed the 360 pagan idols, with the notable exception of the statues of Mary and Jesus. The idol of Hubal, the largest in Mecca, was a giant stone situated atop the Ka�ba. Following the command of the Prophet, Ali (the cousin of Muhammad) stood on Muhammad�s shoulders, climbed to the top of the Ka�ba and toppled the idol." http://www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/saudi_arabia/mecca.ht ml

More amazing. You have yet to make a point. Will you continue to waste everyone's time with childish dribble or will you make a point?

How many times has the site been destroyed by nature (God) or man?

How many times must I come here and find the questions of a ranting idiot?

what is the real physical differences between the pagan temple and the present temple (other than the numerous rebuildings)?

What is your excuse for not taking a basic course on critical thinking. You asked a question that is a fallacy. You have yet to argue that it is a pagan temple. Asking a dumb question does not make it a pagan temple. Try again.

Wasn't Hajj pilgrimage also a paganistic ritual?

No. Try again.

What did Muhammad do to "purify" the pagan temple?

Many things. Why do you want to know and will it convince you otherwise?

Wasn't the "black stone" also a paganistic item?

no.

(What is it about Islam and stones or rocks?)

What is it about you and "dumb" questions?

Aren't the Kaaba lined up with the solstice and the star Canopus in similiar fashion as the paganistic Druid's temples?

Instead of asking "dumb" questions, present your material and make a point.

And what is the "barakah" of the site?  Isn't that something like a "lucky charm."  What is the Qu'ran position on charms?

Interesting. The thread was about you backing up your idiocy. I asked you a simple question: Provide an example of a prophet and the method you used to figure it out. You are a decietful coward. You have hidden behind your constant tautological dribble and idiotic questions wasting the forums time and refusing to engage directly in a debate. After pages of this thread, you still are to much of a coward to offer a response.

Consider this your second warning.

Hope this helps  

Hope this helped.

BMZ

BMZ, my optimistic friend - of course your logical, factual and truthful explanations, as well as those of others here, did not help. stephenc lacks the open mind required to understand the truth even if it hits him on the head. He is what I call a "but-person." You know, the ones who answer everything with: " ... yeah, but ..." My children, during their horrible teens, were like that too and sometimes tricked me into exhausting explanations. I often had to clear their "confused minds" with a firm: "No more buts, go to your room and think about it."

I suggest that StephenCut'nPaste should retreat to a quiet place and meditate on what it is in his personal life that makes him feel so miserable and why it is that the only thing that makes him feel better is to antagonize other people. He is obviously not a very educated person otherwise he wouldn't have to resort to plagiarism, and to �educating� himself on IC (not exactly flooded with Muslim scholars). Perhaps he�s tried to �debate� Islam and Koran with such scholars and failed miserably.

I truly believe that he is guided by something very evil.