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believer View Drop Down
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2008 at 5:48am
Shasta' aunt- Jesus was the WORD, His message-  His apostles wrote about it-  GOD's WORD, message.
 
God's law has been written on all our hearts, all know it is wrong to killbut some are not stopped. 
 
Don't you believe that there is one final judgement day for all?  Have those previously killed already had their judgement day?
 

 Romans 12

17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
   "If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
      if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
   In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
 
Hate and revenge will weigh on a person's heart.  Jesus wants us to forgive.  It is so emotonally releasing for a person to forgive.  It frees you up to get on with the beautiful things in life instead of dwelling on the evil things.  GOD is judge- He will punish those that need to be punished.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Points: 1930 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2008 at 2:49pm
"Shasta' aunt- Jesus was the WORD, His message-  His apostles wrote about it-  GOD's WORD, message.
 
God's law has been written on all our hearts, all know it is wrong to killbut some are not stopped. 
 
Don't you believe that there is one final judgement day for all?  Have those previously killed already had their judgement day?"
 
Jesus is God or God's Word....  Yes we believe that Jesus brought a message from God, as did all of the Prophets and Messengers.
 
And we believe in Judgement Day, where all men will be judged by what they have done, not by the blood sacrifice of another human being.
 
While I was a Christian I never understood how God could be so forgiving, yet so unforgiving, that He could punish all of mankind for the sin of Adam and Eve, then have to sacrifice another human to atone for the sins of other men.  First I am punished for something I did not do, then I am forgiven for something I did not do. Modern Christianity basically takes all personal responsibility out of the equation. 
 
Jesus died so we can be saved, although technically speaking Jesus did not truly die. Nor did he make a sacrifice because he is God and knew that he could not really die. That anything any human did to him would not matter, because three days later he'd be up walking around and then be back up in heaven, untouched and unscathed.    Now if Christians believed that Jesus was just a man who literally gave up his only life, then that would be a sacrifice.
 


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 14 April 2008 at 2:51pm
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Points: 2467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2008 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

While I was a Christian I never understood how God could be so forgiving, yet so unforgiving, that He could punish all of mankind for the sin of Adam and Eve, then have to sacrifice another human to atone for the sins of other men.  First I am punished for something I did not do, then I am forgiven for something I did not do. Modern Christianity basically takes all personal responsibility out of the equation. 
 
Jesus died so we can be saved, although technically speaking Jesus did not truly die. Nor did he make a sacrifice because he is God and knew that he could not really die. That anything any human did to him would not matter, because three days later he'd be up walking around and then be back up in heaven, untouched and unscathed.    Now if Christians believed that Jesus was just a man who literally gave up his only life, then that would be a sacrifice. 
 
Well said. Approve
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2008 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by Servetus Servetus wrote:

Hi Honeto,

 

Maybe, just maybe, it�s like this: when violence and bloodlust agrees with our religious preconceptions, we tend to applaud, justify and rationalize it, but when it doesn�t, and especially when it is practiced by the �other,� whether the other is in this case a Muslim or the entire Kshatriya (warrior) caste, we tend decry it as Satanic.

 

My recommendation to Muslims, who at times seem unapologetically martial in their approach, is that they not, repeat not, read Exodus, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, both books of Samuel, both books of Kings and some of the Psalms without first taking a mild sedative or at least straining them through a pacifistic, Christian filter (exegesis).  Of course, one should take that recommendation for what it is worth.

 

 

Best regards,

Serv
 
Hi Serv,
the only reason I brought this subject up was due to the fact that many followers of the Bible portray themselves and the message of their book as peace and love and justice, something that I don't find in the quotes I mentioned. They are quite contradictory in nature to what is superficially portrayed.
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2008 at 5:58pm
Shasta's aunt- NO, our own sin's, none of us is ever able to say enough prayers, I'm sorry, enough good deeds, etc. to be worthy of being in the presence of GOD.  Through Jesus we are.
 
As 100% human and 100% GOD He still felt all the pain and suffering of the cross and being away from GOD, separated from GOD while His Spirit was preaching to the souls in prison.
 
I believe hell is being separate from GOD, there would be nothing worse. Heaven/ paradise will be with GOD.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2008 at 6:01pm
honeto - Think of the Old Testament as the history of man, all sinners and WHY man needs Jesus.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2008 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

honeto - Think of the Old Testament as the history of man, all sinners and WHY man needs Jesus.
 
Hi believer, are you distancing yourself from the larger part of your Bible, (as the new testament is not as thick as the old) whoes followers were Mary and Jesus (pbuh) as well??
Hasan 
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Points: 6641 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2008 at 6:33pm
From the sounds of it, you guys are taking things literally.
 
 
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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