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Hayfa 
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Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
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 Posted: 09 July 2008 at 3:37am |
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I am not talking about classes of people persay. But let's face it. Yes all people can have some attraction, but if you look like Angelina Jolie you'd get 1000 more marriage propsals then we average folk.
You bring up Donald Trump. Of course that is about money an fame.. other allures. Have you ever watched Reality TV? They have shows abot finding a mate. You meet 25 people and you meet them and decide. MOST of the time they'll take the less attractive in terms responsiblity, marriage, but is good looking. They even did one show, woman gets these 25 averge Joes. (Boy is she shocked). Has to pick. Starts to get to know them.. and then these really god looking guys come in. And the average person just in not in same running. People are visual. Yes beauty is in eye of beholder. But there certainly are tendancies. Money and beauty are allures. And that is why we are told to mary for piety first. Thse others can be factors. But it is absolutely mentioned. |
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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Chrysalis
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Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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Posted: 09 July 2008 at 9:23am |
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I wouldnt say that is a superiority complex. . .even ppl who consider themselves average/not good-looking will say that. It is only a superiority complex if someone who who prides themselves on beauty say it. Especially not on an online forum.
As for the statement that there is no "class" of attractive/unattractive ppl, you and I can say that, and insist upon it. But this is an unfortunate reality that human biengs have a tendency to classify others as attractive/unattractive.
Physical appearance is not the sole quality we/ppl look for, but its a fact that looks matter quite a lot. And people who disregard looks when it comes to marriage, are not in the majority. Which is why arranged marriage kind of gives everyone a fair chance. However, generally spking, ppl do place a whole lot of importance on image, looks, physical package. Infact, now with the media and evrything. . . this trend has risen as compared to the past. Increase in eating disorders, plastic surgery, etc all support that fact.
Israfil . . .I was referring to underpriveleged and attractive ppl seperatley. I did not say attractive ppl = underpriveleged ! ! ! ! ! ! By underpriveleged I was referring to worldly goods, wealth, education, health etc etc etc ! And by "unattractive" I was referring to all those who do not meet society's standards of beauty, which though is subjective like you say, but is still defined atleast within cultures, and the standard is seperate everywhere. I personally find a wheatish/tanned complexion attractive on both genders, but there are societies which give preference to very fair complexions. . . . ! And so, I never inferred that unattractive ppl are underpriveleged.
Men & Women, who do not conform with society's standards of success are left behind when it comes to choosing mates. Whether it be due to health, wealth, education, looks etc. Thats simply natural. . . and it may sound horrible. . . but it happens. The best chance these people have is thier family members finding them a match, and helping. I'm not saying all arranged marriages are like that, etc. Its just a benefit to ppl.
Arranged marriages can also be extremely bad, it all depends.
Perhaps my use of the term "class" for attractive/unattractive ppl was wrong, and I could have used another word. . . but apart from that Israfil, thats a fact of life.
I also did not pass any judgements on any kinds of physical features/appearances, and was simply making an observation. Edited by Chrysalis - 09 July 2008 at 9:25am |
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Jihad1
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Joined: 02 July 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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Posted: 21 July 2008 at 8:25am |
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As'salamu alaikum,
This have been reading about this topic alot lately and found this article.
The customs of a society do not always reflect the religion within the society. In fact many times the customs conflict tremendously with the religion. Certain customs remain within Muslim societies because they are deep rooted within the culture and society. Countless cultural practices have been firmly established within the various Muslim lands, yet they have no foundation in the religion, nor any origin from Islam. These customs thrive within the society, being actively lived and taught from generation to generation, ever passing down forth from the forefathers of old. The masses within the society choose not to abandon these customs because these customs have become an intricate and important part of their society, a symbolic identity, a reason for unity, and a way of life. The people who hold on to such customs may not be aware that such practices go against Islam or they may be arrogant and love their customs over their religion, a religion they profess to love and follow. In this section, we will be looking at different customs and cultures from various societies throughout the Muslim lands, and clarifying whether or not they have any basis in the teachings of Islam.
Scores of women are coming forth from many Muslim societies revealing their stories of how their families have forced them into marrying men unpleasing to them, or visa versa. Reasons for forced marriages include the desire of the parents and close relatives to keep their children within the close family circle. Thus it comes to no surprise that many of these forced marriages are between cousins. In addition, marriages within tribal or class based societies may observe strict laws ensuring couples remain within their tribe or class. Such forced marriages pay no heed to the emotional feel and warmth of marital union, dismissing such desires and feelings as nonsense, even if there is minimal or no attraction on the behalf of a spouse. And should the woman try to resist and stand up for her self, the blood relations will unleash forth their blackmailing techniques in order to keep the women silenced, physically restrained, emotionally worn out, and mentally defeated. Although scores of women are coming forth with their experiences, countless women remain hidden and silenced as those who reside within these various lands bear witness.
Is this practice of forced marriages from Islam? Absolutely not, Islam is free and far removed from such a cruel and barbaric practice. This custom is a practice from the many practices of Jaahileyyah, a practice which is prevailing even today.
For the record, forced marriages against the will of the woman render the marriage null and void. The marriage is invalid unless the woman chooses to keep the marriage, but if she chooses not to remain in the relationship she may ask for an annulment.
Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, �No previously-married woman should be married off without being consulted, and no virgin should be married off without asking her permission.� (saheh of bukhaari; saheeh of muslim)
Khansa bint Khizaam narrated hat her father married her off when she had been previously married and she did not like that. She went to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and he annulled the marriage. (saheeh of bukhaari)
Ibn �Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that a virgin girl came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and told him that her father had married her off against her will. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) gave her the choice. (sunan of abu dawood/ declared saheeh by Albaani)
The above ahaadeeth serve as sufficient evidences to establish the prohibition of forced marriages. Furthermore the marriage is invalid unless the woman herself decides to continue with it. This is the view of the majority of scholars who have derived this ruling from the above ahaadeeth and others like them.
Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, �No previously-married woman should be married off without being consulted, and no virgin should be married off without asking her permission.� They asked, �O Messenger of Allah, what is her permission?� He said, �If she remains silent.� (saheh of bukhaari; saheeh of muslim)
The above hadeeth in its completeness continues with our Prophet describing silence as acceptance on the part of a virgin bride. This does not mean silence during the marriage ceremony for the bride may be silenced due to duress. Rather what is intended is the act of being silent in front of the guardian for the guardian is the one who needs to seek her permission as the previous ahaadeeth mention. So there should be no confusion in this matter.
(the author is kamillah khan)
.
Edited by Jihad1 - 21 July 2008 at 8:27am |
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Hayfa
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Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
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Posted: 21 July 2008 at 2:56pm |
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Saw a piece on documentary.. about girl with Aids in India..and how when the grandmother men this girl's family.. why they married her into the family was her beauty..
If anyone thinks beauty is not often a large factor is foolin themselves.
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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Shasta'sAunt
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Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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Posted: 21 July 2008 at 5:44pm |
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First, there is a difference between an arranged marriage and a forced marriage.
Women are often proponents of arranged marriages because they trust the judgement of their parents. Often in the Middle East, the mother will speak to other mothers and exchange photos. The prospective spouses look at the photos, here is the attraction part of it, and then will tell the mothers who they like. The parents then arrange a meeting, if all goes well, the parents discuss the terms and an engagement is announced. This is a classic example of an arranged marriage.
A forced marriage is where either the man or the woman or both have no choice in the matter.
Second, if attractiveness were of no importance, women wouldn't be wearing hijab and dressing modestly. Perhaps not all people adhere to one standard of beauty, but all people do look for something that attracts them to their mate. Even in the animal kingdom the peacock with the brightest feathers and the youngest strongest lion get the girls.
Donald Trump may not be attractive to Israfil, but some may find him attractive and I'm sure most would find his bank account attractive. While he is perhaps not the most beautiful man, look at the women he chooses.
I am sure that even the most ardent of detractors here would choose Angelina Jolie, Nicole Kidman, or Halle Berry over a 450 pound woman with a unibrow, no teeth and acne, no matter how kind-hearted and good.
Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 24 July 2008 at 1:52pm |
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Israfil
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Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 9:56pm |
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From a scientific standpoint, attraction is a neurological reation of several regions of the brain starting with the retinal area (occipital) region of the brain where collective satisfying points (eyes, nose, teeth) reach a point where there is a totality of satifying features. The brain thus translates these specific attributes as satisying and pleasant thus coming to the opinion of so and so being attractive. This is a natural effect to most species of both mammalian and marine. of course certain features are not looked at simply for the pleasant look but also for the survival of one's genes which is simple darwinism<<<< I just re-read this and I apologize if some are confused on what I was saying above. I wrote this after a meeting with others on neurodegenerative diseases and I think I parroted what was discussed afterwards. So again my apologies (Edited 7/25/08) As for Donald Trump, I wasn't making him being attractive and unattractive an issue I was saying how he is typically considered unattractive, but yes you have a minority that believes he is "God's gift to women" but I am of the opinion that because of our colonial and capitalist society many women-including intelligent women have been conditioned and conditioned themselves to look at him only because of his money not his character.
"I am sure that even the most ardent of detractors here would choose Angelina Jolie, Nicole Kidman, or Halle Berry over a 450 pound woman with a unibrow, no teeth and acne, no matter how kind-hearted and good."
I've seen many Arab men with unibrows and who have a very strong odor who are married to beautiful women, but of course I come to the conclusion that perhaps love is not rational nor an external to internal thing, but a series of complex reactions in the brain and body. I believe people are conditioned by money. Money can make people beautiful just look at the Saudi family. Edited by Israfil - 25 July 2008 at 4:59pm |
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Chrysalis
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Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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Posted: 26 July 2008 at 1:44am |
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Although I am sure you and many others might disagree, but in most societies, more males demand a certain standard of pysical attractiveness from thier potential spouses - compared to women. In most cases (not all), women are more prone to ignoring physical features in thier mates compared to men.
Which is why the female body is more objectified then the male's body - even today.
Edited by Chrysalis - 26 July 2008 at 1:52am |
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Chrysalis
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Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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Posted: 26 July 2008 at 1:51am |
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I think its a natural inclination - akin to 'survival of the fittest', like you mentioned. When there was no concept of 'money' as such, husbands were chosen on the basis of thier hunting prowess, or land, or size of cattle-herd. . . But as hunting/agriculture started diminishing as a common source of income, naturally the other criteria became money. . . which is on the same wieghing scale today as land/herd were in the olden days. Money translates as the Man's ability to take care of/maintain the woman and her offspring - which is a natural drive. True, society does stress on materialism, but I believe that the 'money' ability of the male spouse has more to do with natural inclinations of survival of the fittest rather than social conditioning.
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Israfil wrote: