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Who wrote Quran? |
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beloved ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 29 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Now this is
amazing. Kindly scan back to the thread and you shall find your answer;
aren't you being circular in your questions?
Closing one's eyes from the fact, won't help either. Nowhere in the entire forum the entire list of names has been given. Only a few scribes have been pointed out. For your information, I will list them out. Please read it completely. By Yusuf. - "The Holy Qur'an is literally the Word of Allah, subhananhu was ta'ala. These words were placed in the heart of Saiduna Rasulullah salallahu alaihi wassalam who then recited them. The extratextual evidence for the Holy Qur'an's authenticity, however, would not withstand modern academic methods of research. If you are sincere in your search for such evidence, you will be disappointed. Because the Qur'an was revealed at a time prior to the establishment of methods of record preservation that are acceptable to modern research. The Ahaadith, for example, were collected and written generations after the departure of Saidnuna Rasulallah Salallahu alaihi wassalam. Even the Holy Qur'an was not placed into its final form until the Caliphate of Uthman, radiallahu anhu, and the rationale for the final composition was not recorded. Further, other redactions of the Qur'an that were determined to be inaccurate were destroyed. These are pieces of data that a contemporary researcher requires." By Sarkeranwar - "Scribes included Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Mu'awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, Ubey Ibn Ka'ab, Zayed Ibn Thabit. -Some of the companions wrote the Qur'an for their own use. -Several hundred companions memorized the Qur'an by heart. Zayed, with the help of the companions who memorized and wrote verses of the Qur'an, accomplished the task and handed Abu Bakr the first authenticated copy of the Qur'an. Uthman ordered Zayed Ibn Thabit, Abdullah Ibn Al Zubayr, Saeed Ibn Al-Aas, and Abdur-Rahman Ibn Harith Ibn Hisham to make perfect copies of the authenticated copy kept with Hafsa." So as you can see, we are more interested in the written Holy Quran before the Ahadith has come into existence. And I am more interested in Zayed's compilation. From whom did he compile the Holy Quran? From where did Zayed compile the Holy Quran with the help of his compilations. And as you yourself agree that no science is perfect, "Which science, you think, is perfect? Science is ever increasing phenomena with time and hence never consdiered to be "perfect".", let us not consider the Ahadith. Thank you. |
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AhmadJoyia ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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What do you mean by "people of the Holy Quran"? Are you joking? Yet I would refrain putting icons in my replies. |
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AhmadJoyia ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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Which science, you think, is perfect? Science is ever increasing phenomena with time and hence never consdiered to be "perfect".
I don't don't think there is any outstanding question that is left over, though you may like to close yourself to them.
Now this is amazing. Kindly scan back to the thread and you shall find your answer; aren't you being circular in your questions?
So you mean the ahadith are not considered as "text"? This is really getting more interesting than I thought.
I don't claim to be ahadith scholar. On the more, don't you think the concepts can be used as tools? Think about it. |
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beloved ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 29 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Indeed humans are falliable, yet my brother howard believe that the
Bible (NT) is inspired gospels of God, though, to anonymous people.
So much for the "anonymity" tag. But what about the people of Holy Quran? |
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beloved ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 29 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 115 |
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Your points are baseless simply because of your unfamiliarity with the science of collection of ahadith.
Huh... The thing what you call science was "invented" more than a century after Prophet Muhammad's death. And it is not a perfect science as you want to project it. And if you find it hard to answer the question, you need not say that the points are baseless(and yet you have tried to "explain" my "misunderstandings") ![]() Your assertion of �anonymous writings� is yet another key word referring towards this ignorance. If they were not anonymous writings, then what's the difficulty in giving the names of the authors? Brother, you have written so much. But you haven't given me the required. You keep on going to the Ahadith. Until you give me the names, the source remains anonymous. You told something about "textual higher criticism" yet you haven't answered my question about it, "To be more precise, I would ask you to tell me about the "text" when you said "textual higher criticism"." If you want to tell about Ahadith, please start a different topic. ![]() Thanks. P.S. CRC is not only a networking "tool" but a concept used everywhere. ![]() BTW, its not a "tool", but a concept. ![]() |
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AhmadJoyia ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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Thanks bro howard for your comments, though totally off the mark. The issue of "Allah wrote the Quran" was well addressed in the very begining of my posts where the term "scribe" was introduced to clarify this anomolly on the part of the originator of the topic. Indeed humans are falliable, yet my brother howard believe that the Bible (NT) is inspired gospels of God, though, to anonymous people. |
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howard ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 25 September 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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Just one little comment on the 'who wrote the Quran'
debate. I find it very interesting when Muslims say "Allah wrote the Quran". Of course, upon reflection even Muslims must reject this as for them the Koranic "isnad" is Allah then Jibril then Mohammed then scribes then Zaid ibn Thabit one, then Zaid ibn Thabit two plus four Quraishi scribes. Allah might have revealed the Quran but he did not WRITE it! And humans are fallible! However the uncosncious error that so many Muslims make is not without its hidden signification. It shows that for Muslims God became TEXT. |
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AhmadJoyia ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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O my dear beloved, though your response doesn't merit much consideration, yet I have tried to explain your misunderstandings. Hopefully, this may provide any help.
Your points are baseless simply because of your unfamiliarity with the science of collection of ahadith. Your assertion of �anonymous writings� is yet another key word referring towards this ignorance. Now coming to your response, let us see, what you argue, is it really worth considering?
You have not provided any logical arguments to refute the evidences, though these might have remained verbal for a considerable amount of time in history; as you say. Verbal testimonies are legally admissible evidence even now than ever before. Dismissing them without any critical reasoning is not a valid criterion especially once the witnesses of writing down of Quran themselves existed among the population.
Is there anything known as �western science�? I don�t know when this science was invented by the �west� but I am only referring you to the science of collection of Ahadith i.e. a methodology for the collection of ahadith based on critical analysis. These ahadith are still under study in different part of the Muslim world and remain under debate and discussions through the use of any modern tools, you name it, to attest their authenticity. Those, which don�t pass such tests, are never considered to be reliable for any purpose. Hence as these tools get more refined, so is the authenticity of the ahadith literature.
One would be na�ve to say this. Mere blank assertions are not enough. Bring your evidence on the table and we shall dissect it our selves.
I would still refrain cutting figurative humors in my writings, though your icon seems to reflect back onto your illogical conclusions. Difference of opinions among scholars is based upon merits or standards to which they emphasize more on one aspect than the other. Again, I think, this reflects your total ignorance about this science. BTW, CRC is a useful networking tool, if you happen to know about it.
In the absence of any counter arguments, your assertions remain �baseless�. Isn�t it?
Oh, really? Since when this has become a �common evaluation tool�? Do you intend to say all scholars (100%) agree to one and the same issue every time? Only fools would think like that. I think, my brother has to learn the ABC of understanding of argumentative logic. A split decision by the panel of judges, who encounter the same evidence before them, is a better way of looking at this as an example of �difference of opinion�.
I really couldn�t understand your assertion of �anonymous sources� here, if not from your ignorance of science of ahadith. Kindly bring any logic to refute this science especially once we know anonymity is the foremost dissecting tool to shrug off this kind of material from the list of authentic resources. Mere assertions would not help, nor your iconic impressions. May Allah help all of us to understand the right path. Amen. Edited by AhmadJoyia |
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