Rationality in the Trinity

Angela, I'm sorry.  I didn't notice that you had posted this:

"It really cannot be explained logically, this is a major reason for me turning away from my upbringing in both the Protestant and Eastern Orthodox theologies.  Its incomprehensible, no matter how many times I have someone try to say it makes perfect sense.  It never does"

I think, as a Christian, that people get hung-up on the doctrine of the Trinity by believing that Christians just decided to make up this intricate doctrine and palm it off on the world. Actuially, the simplest step would have been to follow Arius, not Athanasius!

Why do Christians embrace the doctrine of a Tri-Personal deity? It originated in the Old Testament.  "Here O Israel, the Lord (Jehovah) you God (Elohim) is One Lord (Jehovah)."  You'll note here that the shema calls Elohim, Jehovah (contrary, of course to Mormon doctrine, although in D&C we have the Father also called Jehovah in the prayer of dedication of the Kirkland Temple).  The Hebrew word "one" in the shema is "echad," which means a plurality in oneness.  For instance, echad would be used for "one pair of shoes" or "one bunch or grapes." So, it does not necessarily denote singleness of being, but can refer to compositeness of being.

So, we know that the Scripture teaches that there is only ONE God.  Muslims agree with this, as do Jews.  Mormons do not agree with this, for they are not monotheistic but polytheistic (although, I believe Smith was originally modalistic if you look at the internal evidence of the BOM).

However, for Christians, revelation has taught us that God has revealed Himself in Three Personas: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  The Father is not the Son (as Smith originally believed), nor is the Holy Spirit the Father or the Son.  We cannot confuse the members of the Godhead, nor can we confound the substance.

This understanding of God, based on many Scriptures (for instance, the baptismal formula) was formally enshrined in the Creed of Nicea, although it did not originate there.  The origin of the doctrine of the Trinity was not Nicea, or Constantine, etc.  It was Scripture.

The Bible promises this: the Holy Spirit will guide Christians into all truth.  Mormons, of course, believe that Christianity became apostate, later to be restored by a 14, 15 or 16 year-old boy, depending upon which First Vision account you believe.  However, Christians trust in the promise of Christ that He would never leave us, and that where two or three are gathered in His Name, there He is in the midst of them.  We believe that the Holy Spirit has guided Christ's dear Body (the Church) into all necessary Truth.  We stand on the promises of God.

Yes, My grandfather's sisters would kidnap me and take me to the Russian Church back home.  I celebrated two christmas', two Easters and a host of other holidays.  I speak Russian and I've been to many of the Holy sites in Russia.

However, My parents were Methodist, but they never went to church.  My grandmother took us when we were interested.  Which for me was until I was 17.  The first minister we had, couldn't be bothered with children.  The second minister was constantly having to smooth feathers from self-righteous old women who complained about children being allowed in the general service.....and the third.  He was a molester and drunkard who embezzled (I know that's spelled wrong) over $25,000 from our poor little parish.  When I asked for confirmation classes, his response was I didn't really need them.  I was a sunday school teacher and 16, I was a bright girl.  He'd just do the confirmation.  I left church that day and never went back but once to a UMC in Carlisle, PA.  It was all guitars and dancing in the isles and I turned and walked out.  I briefly returned to my grandfather's church and was there for a few years and still couldn't reconcile my heart with the Church and its teachings. 

I spent the next 10 years hating organized religion and reading everything I could get my hand on about other faiths.  I hated Mormons too....I used to make fun of them, badly.  My husband was an inactive Mormon.  Funny how the spirit moves people.  There was no slow brainwashing.  One week I was saying I just couldn't believe in Prophets and the next week, I was on my knees balling, completely overwhelmned by the Spirit.  And I do mean overwhelmned, the cynic on her knees with the power of God.  That was something no one would have ever believed.  The smoking, drinking, wicked cynic repentant and contrite.

Angela, well if I'd experienced all the garbage you did with the UMC, I'd have a bad taste in my mouth as well.

I was raised in an Episcopal Church - attended church every Sunday, received the Eucharist, sang in the choir, knew orthodox doctrine like the back of my hand - but still had no assurance of salvation.

It wasn't until I read "Nine O'Clock in the Morning" by Dennis Bennett, and then the sequel, "The Holy Spirit and You," that I came to understand the Gospel - and guess what, it wasn't that any church, any ritual, anything apart from God's grace, could save me.

It was while reading Ephesians 2:8-9, "by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the GIFT of God, and not of works, lest any man should boast," that the Holy Spirit enligtened me as to what Scripture actually means by salvation.

I had been part of "Churchianity," as apparently were you.  Now I am a Christian, in the Body of Christ, which is the mystical group of all born-again according to faith in Christ Jesus.

I now attend, along with my husband, a Baptist Church. We are a missionary church, and work extensively in Mexico.  I love my church, but if tomorrow the pastor began preaching something contrary to Scripture, I would depart.  For the Body of Christ is not confined to any one denomination, and I can worship anyplace where the Gospel is truly preached.

Is:  I'm having some difficulty understanding your point.  No. 1, please understand that my theology is of the Reformed variety - Thomas Aquinas was a Roman Catholic, and while he was a great philosopher, he is not inerrant, as is Scripture. 

Also, please note that the Shema contains the word "echad" in the Hebrew, not ehad.  I was pointing out that echad is used to define complex unity. Now, I have gone over this many times with Orthodox Jews, and I know I am right in this matter.

Third, you seem to be stating the modalistic view that Christians view the Father and also being the Son and Holy Spirit.  You also said that the Holy Spirit has a different "nature." Christians believe that all members of the Tri-personal Godhead have the same divine nature; the Son took on an additional nature, humanity, which was not mingled with deity, but remained separate (hypostatic union).

So that we are all on the same page, let me link you to a site which will explain to you the orthodox Christian doctrine of the Trinity. This site will clue you in as to the difference between trinitarian theology and modalism (or "oneness" theology):

http://www.aomin.org/CHALC.html

You really need to study this thoroughly before debating the subject.