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AhmadJoyia 
Senior Member
Joined: 20 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1647
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 Posted: 18 April 2009 at 8:55pm |
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Dear Bro Savant, I don't think its the issue of sect but authenticating the information. As I have mentioned that I could only search the 4 books that I had an access to. You are right, these are not the total source of Ahadith, it is for such reason that I requested all, including you, to look up for authenticating the story of Balam. Although, the pages you have pasted does refer to Sahih Bukhari, but I couldn't find it in this reference. So, most probably, based upon limited but referenced search, the story of Balam is not authentic.
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seekshidayath
Senior Member
Female
Islam
Joined: 26 March 2006
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 3357
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Posted: 19 April 2009 at 7:16pm |
 AhmadJoyia wrote:
seekshidayath wrote:
As Salamu Alaikum
[Quote=seekshidayath] I guess none of us doubts the contents from Ibn Kathir. |
I guess, this may not be the right approach to the religion. Is't it? After all, there must be some authentic reference (either Quran or Hadith) that allows us to believe in such tales otherwise chapters like these from "Isaeliyate" would be considered part of Islam without authentication and it is this danger that I don't consider it to be the right approach. What do you say?
Cheers!
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Well, i think, we are to remind you that even other great scholars who interpreted Qur'an and had written its commentary, referred to Ibn Kathir as well. They give us references from Ibn Kathir.
Moreover, this story was related from Ibn Abbas, Qatadah --- And do you think, they made up these stories ? These scholars are not the ones like you and me  . Authentic sources are Quran and sunnah.
Anyways, i hope we will continue with the thread.
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member
Joined: 20 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1647
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Posted: 20 April 2009 at 2:40am |
seekshidayath wrote:
Well, i think, we are to remind you that even other great scholars who interpreted Qur'an and had written its commentary, referred to Ibn Kathir as well. They give us references from Ibn Kathir. |
Thanks for the reminder Bro, however, we all know that the muslim history is not authenticated the way Ahadith are. Therefore, the historical account by Ibn Kathir for all purposes must be authenticated, if it is to be taken in a matter of faith, either through Quran/Ahadith or through other historical sources. Here since the source of this information is implied to be Hadith (through the narrations of Ibn Abbas or Qatadah), therefore, the account must be referred to Prophet Mohammad as its authentic source. In the absence of any such Hadith, I am afraid, I can't assume it to be authentic.
seekshidayath wrote:
Moreover, this story was related from Ibn Abbas, Qatadah --- And do you think, they made up these stories ? These scholars are not the ones like you and me . Authentic sources are Quran and sunnah.
Anyways, i hope we will continue with the thread.
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Again, its not that Hazrat Ibn Abbas or Qatadah are being questionable, but beside other things the content of the whole story are beyond human comprehension. This is simply because, the knowledge about centuries old past events, must be either through divine intervention or through some other written historical records. It is for this reason, that any thing told to us by Prophet Mohammad, we assume is authentic on the basis of divine intervention. For all other sources, the written historical records are needed, which in this case, are clearly unknown. I hope with this caution that we can eliminate the unauthentic chapters of Israeliyat from the Islamic literature.
Edited by AhmadJoyia - 20 April 2009 at 2:42am
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seekshidayath
Senior Member
Female
Islam
Joined: 26 March 2006
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 3357
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Posted: 20 April 2009 at 6:57pm |
JazakAllah brother for being with patience with us
Yesterday, i got to know, that Ibn Kathir, contains some of the weak narrations. Anyways, we will take these ayahs {175 - 176}, as generally applicable to all of us. Let us take the conclusions drawn by Ibn Kathir for that ayah.
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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seekshidayath
Senior Member
Female
Islam
Joined: 26 March 2006
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 3357
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Posted: 20 April 2009 at 7:10pm |
seekshidayath wrote:
Next Question
The Muslim army eventually left for Tabuk. There a sahaba was blessed with an honor which was not conferred on anyone till then. The time of Salat came and the Prophet, peace be on him, was not there at the time. The Muslims chose this sahabah as their imam. The first rakat of the Salat was almost completed when the Prophet, may God bless him and grant him peace, joined the worshippers and performed the Salat behind him
Who was this sahaba who got this great honour ?
Its not Abu Bakr RA !!!!
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Jazakumullah {Sis Alwardah and Br. Duane} for trying to answer this question. Even i did not know of it either, untill i read the biography of Abdur Rahman bin Awf, one of the sahabas, blessed with the gladings of Paradise.
So, the answer is Abdur Rahman bin Awf RA
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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seekshidayath
Senior Member
Female
Islam
Joined: 26 March 2006
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 3357
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Posted: 20 April 2009 at 7:14pm |
Next Question
Who were two well-knowm companions of Prophet, who missed "Battle of Badr", as were sent outside Madinah on a mission. By the time they returned , Prophet and his companions of Battle of Badr returned.
They were both sad at having missed the opportunity of taking part in he first campaign with the Prophet but were tremendously pleased when he told them they would get the same reward as those who actually fought.
Edited by seekshidayath - 20 April 2009 at 7:16pm
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Alwardah
Senior Member
Joined: 25 March 2005
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 980
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Posted: 24 April 2009 at 7:59am |
As Salamu Alaikum
Regarding the battle of Badr the only companion I can think of is, Uthman ibn Affan (Radhi Allahu Anhu) who was not present as he was nursing his wife, the daughter of the Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) and he was given a share in the Spoils of the War.
Jazakallahu Khairan brother AhmadJoyia for the time you have taken to explain your point. Ameen to your Dua.
Each one of us is blessed with different levels of understanding and knowledge, a very precious gift from Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala I may add. Thus each of us will approach the search of knowledge in different ways which Insha Allah will eventually lead us to the final destiantion we are seeking Jannatul-Firdaus. Unfortunately the majority of us are not blessed with the ability to just study the Glorious Qur'an and the Books of Hadith without referring to scholars. I will not go into the Your Scholar and My Scholar scenario in this thread, as I had more than my share of this argument on this forum. I would only like to add that as long as the point discussed does not relate to our Aqeedah, and it is found in the books of some of our eminent scholars then I don�t have a problem with that. Regarding the matter we are discussing as already mentioned both Ibn Abbas and Qatadah (Radhi Allahu Anhuma) related it. I don�t see why you feel that �the whole story is beyond human comprehension.� To sum up I would like to quote this Hadith. Insha Allah you will accept it as it is a general Hadith which allowed the Companions (Radhi Allahu Anhum) to narrated stories of Bani Israel.
Narrated By 'Abdullah bin 'Amr (Radhi Allahu Anhu): The Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) said, "Convey (my teachings) to the people even if it were a single sentence, and tell others the stories of Bani Israel (which have been taught to you), for it is not sinful to do so. And whoever tells a lie on me intentionally, will surely take his place in the (Hell) Fire." (Al-Bukhari Vol 4: Hadith 667)
A reminder to myself first of all and to everyone else, lets get into the habit of starting our post with Salams. We get 10 good deeds added to our scale every time someone reads the Salam. Insha Allah.
May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala bless us with useful knowledge and keep us on the Straight Path and protect us from disunity and falling into Shaitan�s trap Ameen
See you guys next week Insha Allah
Wa Alaikum Salam
Edited by Alwardah - 24 April 2009 at 8:07am
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�Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An�am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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hat2010
Senior Member
Joined: 10 October 2006
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 561
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Posted: 28 April 2009 at 2:40am |
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Sidenote:
AhmadJoyia...great posts!
Thanks for clearing the cobwebs!
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