Why do Muslims

Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

I don't disagree that he would have been accurate in explaining the Quran and conveying its wisdom within the context of the seventh century.

Your assuming what that means.

"Universality is the quality ascribed to an entity whose existence is consistent throughout the universe. In philosophy, universalism is a doctrine or school in which it is claimed that universal facts can be discovered and which is understood then as being in opposition to relativism. When used in the context of ethics, the meaning of universal refers to that which is true for "all similarly situated individuals". [1] Rights, for example in natural rights, or in the 1789 Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, for those heavily influenced by the philosophy of the Enlightenment and its conception of a human nature, could be considered as universal. The 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights is inspired by such principles.

In logic, or the consideration of valid arguments, a proposition is said to have universality if it can be conceived as being true in all possible contexts without creating a contradiction. Some philosophers have referred to such propositions as universalizable. Truth is considered to be universal if it is valid in all times and places. In this case, it is seen as eternal or as absolute. The relativist conception denies the existence of some or all universal truths, particularly ethical ones (through moral relativism). Mathematics is a field in which those truths discovered, in relation to the field of mathematics, are typically considerered of universal scope. Usage of the word truth has various domains of application, relativism does not necessarily apply to all of them."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universality_(philosophy)

Allah is now as he ever was he does not change grow, he exists without beginning and has no end. When the prophet [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] talks about allah, his atributes, his creation, his heaven, hell, creation it nature, moral teachings and many other things they have a Universal unchanging nature, they are truth now as they where 1400 years ago and 1400 years from now. will you now say we should only ignore the parts that we dont need?

Reasonable?  I think it's absolutely essential that you, or someone like you, start "defending the faith" on mainstream Internet discussion forums -- not with hostility, but with clear explanations and reasoned argument.  If I could convince you of only one thing, I wish it could be that.

Its not hostility that you sense in my post but maybe slight frustration, to me and other muslims who have a familiarity with the religion its all common sense, well based on other information also.

some of us have done what you ask but believe argumentation wears down most people especially the ones who are conscious of there moral state.

I do what I can, but I'm obviously unqualified for the job.  Please reread my introductory message and consider it seriously.  Don't you think it's time for an "Internet Jihad"?

i hadn't read your introductory thread before but the moral choice that you made is universally right in all religions

Its not easy to see common sense especially when its just easier to hate and conform.

whether his interpretation of the Quran could have taken into account the different circumstances in which we live today.

He was shown the future and spoke about it [as we have them recorded in many ahadith] so he was well aware of what was going to happen after his time up until the time we enter Heaven. 

Omniscient in the sense that the Prophet's rulings in the seventh century could take into account the circumstances in which we live today. 

You can not use such a sweeping genralisation to invalidate 23 years of prophethood, it makes sense in and of itself but doesn't hold water when you investigate it.

I asked you if prayer was different, Hajj, Fasting, Zakkat, Human nature! and you unjustifiably answered yes. There are many topics that the prophet [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] discussed that are still exactly the same 1400 years later, if he didnt mention something specifically he certainly established the moral foundations for every single situation that a man will ever find him self in, without exaggeration.

I am talking about things you havnt read or learnt regarding islam, you cant deny something simply because you havnt learnt it yet as you yourself admit your knowledge is limited. Dont say "it"cant be true ask how is it true.

Regarding every new thing that has come up which he didn't specifically mention we have something in islam called Ijtihad [Independant legal reasoning], this act [in an extremely simplistic explanation] entails deducing legal rulings from the Quran and sunnah to deal with new situations that have not come up specifically beffore, the prophet himself instructed his companions to do this when he was sending them to different lands, he said first look in the Quran for answers if you can not find it there then my sunnah [which includes all recorded ahadith] then if you can not find your answer there perform ijtihad using the prvious two as you foundation.

Infallible in the sense that he never made a mistake in his entire life.

A mistake in judgment [as in between two different courses of action] then yes and its clearly stated in the Quran, regarding what he instructed people in regards to the religion then no he was infallible as allah helped him in this and it is stated very clearly in the Quran, "this day i have perfected your religion for you", a claim of perfection that can not be maid if anything wrong in regards to religion had been said. There are plenty of other verses i can quote but i am trying to keep it short.

What exactly is not relevant 1400 years later?

rami's response was (among other things) that the planet is capable of supporting still more people and resources would not be scarce if we conserved them better.  I disagree --

I think you havnt been outside of canada. can you specify for me the islamic principles regarding eating and conservation of the environment that you just disagreed with?

I think the planet is already overpopulated -- but even if he's right, it should be obvious that at some point we will have too many people on this planet and it will be necessary to limit family size.  Policies that encourage population growth indefinitely are not sustainable.

if this where to go on indefinitely then i would agree with you but since our religion, most religions, teach that this world is temporary then i can not.

Allah has said regarding abortion that we should not kill our children in fear of being unable to sustain them as he has taken it upon himself to do so. This is of course a general statement but since allah is Omniscient i am certain he knows the exact time when this world can not sustain us even if we are doing all the right things.

Yes, the Quran did say to obey the Prophet, but the Prophet (peace be upon him) is dead.  To blindly continue following his orders 1400 years later is like nailing the rudder of a ship in its last position after the captain dies.  The river continues to twist and turn, the currents run this way and that, but Islam sails on blindly into ever more treacherous waters.  It was great to have the Prophet at the helm in the beginning, but now that he is gone we need to find our own way, and the Quran (which is complete and explained in detail) ought to be sufficient guide.

just because the analogy makes sense in and of itself does not mean it is a correct analogy regarding the sunnah. Once again i will state the obvious truth that while Christian Europe was in the dark ages Islamic civilization was the most advanced in the world and all under Islamic rule. History and experience if nothing else [as you dont seem  to be interested in understanding how or why] proves you wrong.

if you like visit http://www.muslimheritage.com/ to learn more.

As I said, I don't know much about the content of the hadith, but I already know from the Quran that the Prophet is capable of error because the Quran tells us in Sura 80 that he wrongly ignored a blind man who came to him for instruction.

This was a mistake in deciding between two paths [if you know the entire story you will see] not an error in instructing his followers about religion which is a more serious mistake and not once did Allah say he did such a thing.

Put this into perspective, he decided to pay attention to the nobles of Quraish, becouse if he was to win them over entire wars would cease, than to answer the Questions of an old blind man. For this mistake allah reveals a verse in the Quran sancturing him, can you imagine if he had said anything wrong about the religion itself.

Edited by rami

Ron Webb wrote: Okay, "how is it true" that the rules for fasting are the same in Grise Fiord (76 degrees north latitude) as they are in Mecca?

Are you sure of that?? or are you making assumptions......

Q [IRC Addis Ababa]: Dr. Awol Idris: Ramadan uses the lunar calendar and the times for sihur and iftar are suggested to take place before sunrise and at sunset respectively. This may not be a problem around the equator where the day and the night are kind of equal in length - roughly 12 hours each. This is true of Saudi Arabia where Islam started. But, further up to the north or further down to the south, how do people break their fast or have the sihur when the sun may be still up on the horizon for as long as 18 hours or more? How do you do it in the US, in this connection?

A [Imam Arafat]: The communities begin and break the fast according to the normal timing of the closest city to them. This is particular to Muslims living in Alaska

http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2007/October/2007 1005170059xjsnommis0.5716516.html

all information should be verified by your local imam of course...

This is a prime example of why one need to do research and gain knowledge on certain islamic concepts, rituals, etc, before they make false assumptions about Islam.

Contrary to what you make think, I do not feel as if Islam prohibits one from engaging in a modern life. Islam do however allow for muslims to live a simple life.

The keys and advice to living a good,enjoyable life free from sin as a muslim did not come with a expiration date.

Nor is Islam all about 'rules' that must be followed.

Behind every valid hadith or ayat, their is a reason, a joyous message in my opnion.

It is with faith that one begins to appreciate and understand the message.

The choice is all up to the invidual of course and the grace of Allah(swt).

Nur_Ilahi wrote: The only difference in fasting in the Arctic, would be the shorter hours of daylight. Basically there is no difference.

In Grise Fiord the sun never sets from May to August.  I think that would make a difference.

layalee wrote: Ron Webb wrote: Okay, "how is it true" that the rules for fasting are the same in Grise Fiord (76 degrees north latitude) as they are in Mecca? Are you sure of that?? or are you making assumptions...... Q [IRC Addis Ababa]: Dr. Awol Idris: Ramadan uses the lunar calendar and the times for sihur and iftar are suggested to take place before sunrise and at sunset respectively. This may not be a problem around the equator where the day and the night are kind of equal in length - roughly 12 hours each. This is true of Saudi Arabia where Islam started. But, further up to the north or further down to the south, how do people break their fast or have the sihur when the sun may be still up on the horizon for as long as 18 hours or more? How do you do it in the US, in this connection? A [Imam Arafat]: The communities begin and break the fast according to the normal timing of the closest city to them. This is particular to Muslims living in Alaska.

I am not making assumptions, but apparently Imam Arafat is.  In Fairbanks, Alaska (surely a city by anyone's definition), the sun is above the horizon for nearly 22 hours a day near the summer solstice.

Anyway, the Imam is simply confirming my point.  A Muslim could not reasonably be expected to follow the traditional rules for fasting in Fairbanks, much less Grise Fiord.

rami, if I have shown you that the Prophet (peace be upon him) is even 0.0001% fallible, or that the Hadith are even 0.0001% inapplicable today, then I would count that as progress.

Edited by Ron Webb