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honeto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2009 at 2:17pm
Hi Pati,
you claim to be at peace with your belief, then I realy don't understand your purpose wandering around this site, and confused.
At one place I find you say, " Muslim Allah, Christian and Jewish God are all same." On other ocassion you say, " I don't belief in Allah, I believe in Christian God. "
You seem to be in conflict with yourself and that's OK we all have been there once or more. And you know that your being here is welcome and is a sign that your inner soul is seeking answers and want to share your thoughts. 
 
As always, I will try to make it short and to the point.
To begin, let us correct something basic here. You will agree that there is only One entity behind all Creation. God is just an English word for that entity. In other words Jews, Christians, Muslims even Hindu's when asked claim the same, we worship our Creator. We call upon our maker with different names, but that does not change the nature or status of the Only Creator there is.
So in essence we all who follow any religion put our Creator as center of our belief and devotion. And we all agree that there is not two Creators, just one and only. We all claim and profess that.
Now here is the interesting part, what makes us see each other's God different is the way we understand and worship our God.
For example, a Hindu also believe that there is only one God, but go one to contradict that belief by worshipping to many images and idols representing many human and animal incarnation or manifestation of that One God. Yet they claim they worship God only. Their practice does not agree with their professed belief.
 
My Christian friends claim that they serve and worship One God, and I don't doubt there sincerety, as I know some really dedicated people that are no different than any other dedicated Muslims or Hindus. But again it comes down to the difference in their claim vs in their practice. They say, we serve and worship One and only God, but go on to add and His son, and God the Holy Spirit.  They worship God, the worship His son and His images (not all) thus going against their very belief that they worship One God. They don't seem to be any different than a Hindu when they add on and say that God manifested and incarnated as Jesus on earth. Jesus was a walking talking God on earth, they say. 
 
See, our description, understanding, service and worship of God varies, even though we intend to be aiming at the same our claim remains common and our God remains One and Only Creator.
 
Now Jews (and the OT) probably come closest, not yet the purest when describing One God as One God and serving and worshipping that One God. And even though their book is part of Christian book as well, they don't have Trinity which shows that it was a later invention or idea that did not exist since the begining.
 
Without doubt, and I am not boasting, only in Quran and Islam we find what's preached as One God is served and worshipped only as such, no additions of any kind. Worship purely for God Only unseen.  And that's a fact and a challenge you will not be able to meet. A Muslim is not contradicting between what he/she claims about God, and what he/she practices when it comes to serving and worshipping that One and only God.
 
Now, we are free whatever we do, but understand, as I am sure you believe too, on our own responsibility. As one day, we will be shown what we did and whether it was in accordence with the truth or not, and be held responsible and face its results.
 
We may learn, teach, feel good and get support from others around us whether be friends, family, community and so on, but we make our own decissions, and we ourself not them will answer that day for us. Each will recieve what it sends forward. A mistake here cost too much over there and you cannot reverse it, I am sure you agree. So regardless, what you decide for yourself, just make sure you do a through investigation by yourself as we all have our chance for doing that here.
May God Almighty guide those who seek His guidence, and forgive the mistakes we make,
Ameen.
Best regards,
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 08 September 2009 at 2:33pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Akhe Abdullah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 September 2009 at 4:27am
As Salamu Alaikum,Hasan.(SubhanAllah!)I tip my Kufi to you Ahki, that was great! May Allah Bless you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote myahya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2009 at 9:06am
Moses

God continuesly says they are noting more than you as a human.

That refers to their physiological being. However, their level of Iman, spirituality and pureness are not comparable to fallible humans.

God also says that unbelievers would reject messengers and do not follow them arguing that they are noting but human, see for example:

Quran (36:13-15)

(13) And set out to them an example of the people of the town, when the messengers came to it. (14) When We sent to them two, they rejected both of them, then We strengthened them with a third, so they said: Surely we are messengers to you. (15)" They said: You are naught but mortals like ourselves, nor has the Beneficent God revealed anything; you only lie"

 following the prophets means following the created human.

Not at all. God again continually says that the prophets should be followed, have you not read Quran carefully:

Quran (3:31-32)

(31) Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
(32) Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger But if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.

If you believe in Holy book, you would read it and follow every things that God will give you from his words as a gift.

And this is exactly why I follow the prophet (as what God asks us to do in Holy Book).

God cleansed Muhammad and his family (Ahl al beit ) to act for God not for beeing God !!

Following the prophets does not mean that they are God!!

Muhammad did not say follow me. but you are teaching to people to follow him! aren`t you?!!

Referring back to Quran God tells us (many times) to follow the prophet.

Quran reveal for us a mistake of Muhammad( that for him is completely as a sin!)

Unfortunately, you are misinterpreting Quran (66:1). First of all, this is not a sin. The prophet already had the complete free will (from God) to whether act to a Hallal in his personal and private life or not. Accordingly he decided to ban a Hallal thing in his private life to satisfy one or more of his wives. Secondly, as soon as God told him not to do so the prophet broke the ban and therfore, he followed God in both cases. Not a sin nor even a moment of disobeying happened for the prophet.



Edited by myahya - 13 September 2009 at 9:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2009 at 10:48am
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Hi Pati,
you claim to be at peace with your belief, then I realy don't understand your purpose wandering around this site, and confused.
At one place I find you say, " Muslim Allah, Christian and Jewish God are all same." On other ocassion you say, " I don't belief in Allah, I believe in Christian God. "
You seem to be in conflict with yourself and that's OK we all have been there once or more. And you know that your being here is welcome and is a sign that your inner soul is seeking answers and want to share your thoughts. 
 

Hi Hasan,

I cannot understand where is the problem with being here around as Catholic, really. Is it necessary to be interested in changing your believes to stay here? In that case, I am losing my time and yours, so I apologize.

And I will give you an example: you have a box, and every side of the box has one colour. If you look at it from front side, you will see it's green. If you look at it from another side, you will see it's yellow. If you look at it from the opposite side, suddenly, it's blue. But at the end, the box is a box, without any doubt.

From my side, God is Catholic, I believe so. From your side, God is Muslim, you believe so. Where is the problem here? Because I cannot find it. From your side, God is one, and from mine too. From your side, we have to worship Him, and from my side too. The differences are related to our way of praying, to the Holly Books, to different costumes, etc.

If someone wants to change, I am happy, really. Actually, last Friday we were celebrating the return to Islam (as they said) of two Spanish people, and I was there and happy. Why is it making me happy? Because they didn't feel peace inside with the Catholic religion, and after meeting Islam, they found it. As Catholic, I don't want everyone to be like me, I just want people with deep believes and who understands our religion. I believe those people will be great Muslim, inshallah.

I just ask for respect. I didn't come here to insult anyone or to do bad things. I just found this forum and liked it, so sorry for that.

Best regards,
Patricia
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2009 at 2:52pm
Moses,
following the prophet means to follow what he is preaching and practicing from what is revealed to him from God. A prophet of God is a teacher, an example, upon which we shape our lives in order to be righteous. How he worshipped and served God, how he was with the rest of God's creation, we try to follow his example.  So I would add that don't bite words rather try to absorb their simple meanings. Only then you can grow in understanding and knowledge to the level that you will start to see their benefits.
 
 
Thanks brother Ak'Abdullah, remember me in your prayers brother, may Allah bless you.
 
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moses Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 September 2009 at 6:23am

[myahya]
That refers to their physiological being. However, their level of Iman, spirituality and pureness are not comparable to fallible humans.
God also says that unbelievers would reject messengers and do not follow them arguing that they are noting but human, see for example:
Quran (36:13-15)
(13) And set out to them an example of the people of the town, when the messengers came to it. (14) When We sent to them two, they rejected both of them, then We strengthened them with a third, so they said: Surely we are messengers to you. (15)" They said: You are naught but mortals like ourselves, nor has the Beneficent God revealed anything; you only lie"

If the messengers are better than me, it�s because God gave them something that did not give to me as well, not because of the difference in humanity. They are not our base of Iman(faith) , they are not who that help us, they are as weak as others, but God make them full of power from himself. As Quran says: 17-56

قُلِ ٱدۡعُواْ ٱلَّذِينَ زَعَمۡتُم مِّن دُونِهِۦ فَلَا يَمۡلِكُونَ كَشۡفَ ٱلضُّرِّ عَنكُمۡ وَلَا تَحۡوِيلاً (٥٦)

Say: Cry (ask) unto those whom below Him, yet they have no power to rid you neither of misfortune nor to change. (56)

The messengers are below him just like us, we cannot ask them to do anything for us, because they are not our owner! See:2-107

أَلَمۡ تَعۡلَمۡ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَهُ ۥ مُلۡكُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٲتِ وَٱلۡأَرۡضِ‌ۗ وَمَا لَڪُم مِّن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ مِن وَلِىٍّ۬ وَلَا نَصِيرٍ (١٠٧) أَمۡ تُرِيدُونَ أَن تَسۡـَٔلُواْ رَسُولَكُمۡ كَمَا سُٮِٕلَ مُوسَىٰ مِن قَبۡلُ‌ۗ وَمَن يَتَبَدَّلِ ٱلۡڪُفۡرَ بِٱلۡإِيمَـٰنِ فَقَدۡ ضَلَّ سَوَآءَ ٱلسَّبِيلِ (١٠٨)

Knowest thou not that it is Allah unto Whom belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth; and ye have not, beside Allah, any friend or helper? (107) Or would ye ask your messenger as Moses was asked aforetime? He who chooseth disbelief instead of faith, verily he hath gone astray from a plain road. (108)

وَٱلَّذِينَ تَدۡعُونَ مِن دُونِهِۦ لَا يَسۡتَطِيعُونَ نَصۡرَڪُمۡ وَلَآ أَنفُسَہُمۡ يَنصُرُونَ (١٩٧)

They on whom ye call beside Him have no power to help you, nor can they help you, nor can they help themselves. (197)

قُلْ إِنَّمَا أَنَا بَشَرٌ مِّثْلُكُمْ يُوحَى إِلَيَّ أَنَّمَا إِلَهُكُمْ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ فَمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو لِقَاء رَبِّهِ فَلْيَعْمَلْ عَمَلًا صَالِحًا وَلَا يُشْرِكْ بِعِبَادَةِ رَبِّهِ أَحَدًا ﴿۱۱۰


 following the prophets means following the created human.

Not at all. God again continually says that the prophets should be followed, have you not read Quran carefully:


Quran (3:31-32)

(31) Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
(32) Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger But if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.
قُلۡ إِن كُنتُمۡ تُحِبُّونَ ٱللَّهَ فَٱتَّبِعُونِى يُحۡبِبۡكُمُ ٱللَّهُ وَيَغۡفِرۡ لَكُمۡ ذُنُوبَكُمۡ‌ۗ وَٱللَّهُ غَفُورٌ۬ رَّحِيمٌ۬ (٣١) قُلۡ أَطِيعُواْ ٱللَّهَ وَٱلرَّسُولَ‌ۖ فَإِن تَوَلَّوۡاْ فَإِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لَا يُحِبُّ ٱلۡكَـٰفِرِينَ (٣٢)

It is not following him, this is Obey from his commands which are words of Allah. Quran 3-143

وَمَا مُحَمَّدٌ إِلَّا رَسُولٌ۬ قَدۡ خَلَتۡ مِن قَبۡلِهِ ٱلرُّسُلُ‌ۚ أَفَإِيْن مَّاتَ أَوۡ قُتِلَ ٱنقَلَبۡتُمۡ عَلَىٰٓ أَعۡقَـٰبِكُمۡ‌ۚ وَمَن يَنقَلِبۡ عَلَىٰ عَقِبَيۡهِ فَلَن يَضُرَّ ٱللَّهَ شَيۡـًٔ۬ا‌ۗ وَسَيَجۡزِى ٱللَّهُ ٱلشَّـٰڪِرِينَ (١٤٤)  

Muhammad is but a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) have passed away before him. Will it be that, when he dieth or is slain, ye will turn back on your heels? He who turneth back on doth no hurt to Allah, and Allah will reward the thankful. (144)

Means following the messenger, if is different from following the Lord, will be up to the death of that messenger! Yes?! The reason is here: 3-79

مَا كَانَ لِبَشَرٍ أَن يُؤۡتِيَهُ ٱللَّهُ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبَ وَٱلۡحُكۡمَ وَٱلنُّبُوَّةَ ثُمَّ يَقُولَ لِلنَّاسِ كُونُواْ عِبَادً۬ا لِّى مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ وَلَـٰكِن كُونُواْ رَبَّـٰنِيِّـۧنَ بِمَا كُنتُمۡ تُعَلِّمُونَ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبَ وَبِمَا كُنتُمۡ تَدۡرُسُونَ (٧٩)

It is not (possible) for any human being unto whom Allah had given the Scripture and wisdom and the prophethood that he should afterwards have said unto mankind: Be servants of me instead of Allah; but (what he said was): Be ye faithful servants of the Lord by virtue of your constant teaching of the Scripture and of your constant study thereof. (79)

On the other hand you want follow someone who does not know anything about the invisible world and cannot does anything even for himself?!! And you want him do something for you?!! Up to you , but he say himself something else : 7-188

قُل لَّآ أَمۡلِكُ لِنَفۡسِى نَفۡعً۬ا وَلَا ضَرًّا إِلَّا مَا شَآءَ ٱللَّهُ‌ۚ وَلَوۡ كُنتُ أَعۡلَمُ ٱلۡغَيۡبَ لَٱسۡتَڪۡثَرۡتُ مِنَ ٱلۡخَيۡرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِىَ ٱلسُّوٓءُ‌ۚ إِنۡ أَنَا۟ إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ۬ وَبَشِيرٌ۬ لِّقَوۡمٍ۬ يُؤۡمِنُونَ (١٨٨)

Say: For myself I have no power to benefit, nor power to hurt, save that which Allah willeth. Had I knowledge of the Unseen, I should have abundance of wealth, and adversity would not touch me. I am but a warner, and a bearer of good tidings unto folk who believe. (188)


...........Quran reveal for us a mistake of Muhammad( that for him is completely as a sin!)

Unfortunately, you are misinterpreting Quran (66:1). First of all, this is not a sin. The prophet already had the complete free will (from God) to whether act to a Hallal in his personal and private life or not. Accordingly he decided to ban a Hallal thing in his private life to satisfy one or more of his wives. Secondly, as soon as God told him not to do so the prophet broke the ban and therfore, he followed God in both cases. Not a sin nor even a moment of disobeying happened for the prophet.


A sin for a prophet is not as a sin for other people. Because he is blessed and is walking with God, then he has to do every thing to make God happy .

يَـٰٓأَيُّہَا ٱلنَّبِىُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَآ أَحَلَّ ٱللَّهُ لَكَ‌ۖ تَبۡتَغِى مَرۡضَاتَ أَزۡوَٲجِكَ‌ۚ وَٱللَّهُ غَفُورٌ۬ رَّحِيمٌ۬ (١

O Prophet! Why bannest thou that which Allah hath made lawful for thee, seeking to please thy wives? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (1)

Muhammad is not a sinner any more. But these 2 acts are his sins:

1-    bannest that which Allah had made lawful

2-    seeking to please of human , not please of God

 

This is the message of Quran in the first verse of this chapter that Muhammad without God, is a simple sinner human, he will do mistake every time he forget to please God instead of human, he will do the same mistakes as me do and you do.

Then lets don`t look at him just like a supper human that was cleansed from the first (!!!) and on the other hand, don`t forget his friendship with God and the mission that he had from him and how he did that as well as he could do.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2009 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by Pati Pati wrote:


Salams,Pati.You said "From my side, God is Catholic, I believe so. From your side, God is Muslim, you believe so. Where is the problem here?The problem here is that no one claims God is Muslim or Catholic thats rediculous,I'll give you the benefit of doubt that this is a misprint.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2009 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by Pati Pati wrote:


Salams,Pati.You said "From my side, God is Catholic, I believe so. From your side, God is Muslim, you believe so. Where is the problem here?The problem here is that no one claims God is Muslim or Catholic thats rediculous,I'll give you the benefit of doubt that this is a misprint.
Salams Akhe,
 
Sorry, but there was no misprint in my post.
 
I really don't know how to explain you what I want to say, but I think it's easier than what you are understanding.
 
You believe in Quran as your Holly Book, while for me it's the Bible the good one (no need to reject others, just to accept the own). I pray on my knees with my hands together and my head looking down, with my eyes closed just thinking about God, while you pray in different way. I believe in Jesus word, while you believe in Muhammad's word.
 
So... even if the end of our believes is the same, something I am not rejecting, we have different ways to see, to believe, to practice, to show...
 
Did I explain myself in right way now?
 
Really, if you cannot understand me, I think I will post the next answer in Spanish (mother language Wink).
 
Regards
Patricia
 
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The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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