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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2014 at 11:49pm
Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

When I read the excerpts you guys quote from the Bible, it seems I am reading some shameless story-telling.

Greetings Muslim75,

I can understand how, being raised as a muslim, it would seem this way.
There is one problem though;
Yshwe never disputed with the Hebrew scriptures while He was on earth.  He never said that anything written in them was wrong.
If He had, it most certainly would have been recorded by the Jewish leaders.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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The Saint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Saint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2014 at 2:10am
Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

Kingskid,

Does it occur to you that the "NT" you read may be forged and not authentic ? When I read the excerpts you guys quote from the Bible, it seems I am reading some shameless story-telling. This is forged, without a doubt (speaking as a Muslim); only those who accept to believe in it will believe in it.



Assalaamualaikum

Truly, they see but see not and they hear but hear not. They know but understand not.

Jesus PBUH clearly spoke of the Comforter.

John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever"

John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me"

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 16:7-14 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you."
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The Saint View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Saint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2014 at 2:18am
[/QUOTE]Can you please direct me to the passages on which you base your belief's about Muhammad's night journey?Shukran and salaam,Caringheart[/QUOTE]

Surah 17. Al-Israa, Ayah 1

Glorified be He Who carried His servant by night from the Inviolable Place of Worship to the Far Distant Place of Worship the neighborhood whereof We have blessed, that We might show him of Our tokens! Lo! He, only He, is the Hearer, the Seer. - See more at: http://www.alim.org/library/quran/ayah/compare/17/1/allah-took-muhammad-(pbuh)-on-a-tour-of-the-universe#sthash.lKEr8sVp.dpuf
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airmano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2014 at 3:58am
Muslim75:
Quote Does it occur to you that the "NT" you read may be forged and not authentic ? When I read the excerpts you guys quote from the Bible, it seems I am reading some shameless story-telling. This is forged, without a doubt (speaking as a Muslim); only those who accept to believe in it will believe in it.
Sure you won't be surprised, but for an outsider the Quran looks even more like "Alice in Wonderland" than the bible.

Airmano
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingskid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2014 at 7:34am
Greetings and peace to you, Muslim75.  You wrote:

Kingskid,
 
Does it occur to you that the "NT" you read may be forged and not authentic ? When I read the excerpts you guys quote from the Bible, it seems I am reading some shameless story-telling. This is forged, without a doubt (speaking as a Muslim); only those who accept to believe in it will believe in it.
 
It is a fair question.  However, that door swings both ways, does it not?  How do you know the Quran isn't a figment of Mohammad's imagination or just an artful work of fiction?  It comes down to faith, but it doesn't have to be blind faith.  Biblical scriptures have been validated in many ways from history and archaeology, so empirical bases do exist. 
kingskid
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2014 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by kingskid kingskid wrote:

Greetings and peace to you, Muslim75.� You wrote:<table ="tableBorder" align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><t><tr ="msgableRow"><td ="msgLineDevider" style="height: 150px;" valign="top">
   
   
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   Kingskid,

Does it occur to you that the "NT" you read may be forged and not
authentic ? When I read the excerpts you guys quote from the Bible, it
seems I am reading some shameless story-telling. This is forged, without
a doubt (speaking as a Muslim); only those who accept to believe in it
will believe in it.


   </td></tr></t></table>It is a fair question.� However, that door swings both ways, does it not?� How do you know the Quran isn't a figment of Mohammad's imagination or just an artful work of fiction?� It comes down to faith, but it doesn't have to be blind faith.� Biblical scriptures have been validated in many ways from history and archaeology, so empirical bases do exist.�




Kingkid,
I had a chance to ask that question years ago, and I did a simple thing to figure out which one is the victim of time and alterations or man-made.

I took a plain sheet of paper and drew a vertical line in the middle, one side for the Bible, the other for Quran. On four important points I wanted to see the answer of the two books. If they are clear or with contradictions. Since God is All Knowing and does not contradict thus it will be easy to separate the one that is still pure word of God.
There were no more than a handful important issues that could point to a clear answer.
I started writing the most important one first: God followed by Jesus, then sons of God, then Salvation.
I wanted to see what each one says about it, and if anyone of the two is not in agreement within itself gets a negative point for that issue.
It was not too long that I was able to get the position of both the books on those points and scores were ready.
Only the Bible contained verses that opposed each of it's claim regarding those four major points.
The Quran did not contradict any of those four.
I still believe both are from God, only that the inconsistencies of the Bible don't prove that it not from God, only that it must have been altered by men. Since God through Quran confirms that Torah, Psalms and Gospel were actually sent by God himself, but people changed them, I was able to confirm that through my own study, not that I was in doubt, but because others were kept insisting and I had to show them, and I did.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 18 November 2014 at 2:11pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingskid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2014 at 7:15pm
Greetings Hasan and may peace be yours.

I hear what you are saying.  You have done a lot of research and find that there are those who agree with you on a presumed fallacy of Biblical scriptures.  They are out there, of course.  But you see, Hasan, I could do the same thing and tell you what Don Richardson, Ibn. Warraq, Bat Ye'or, Reza Safa, David Pryce-Jones, et al, say about Islam and the fallacies thereof.  But, those arguments just lead to a door swinging both ways. 

You obviously are a pursuer of truth, as am I.  However, it takes more than just making your pursuit hinge on four points that are important to you.  That's approaching the issue from a very subjective stance.  An  objective approach may be more beneficial.  You say you believe the Gospel (I assume you mean Mat., Mark, Luke and John) was sent from God but people changed it along with the other books you mentioned.  If that is the case, then all Biblical references in the Quran should be deleted.  Once any part of something becomes suspect for one reason or another, then the whole thing becomes suspect.

To the extent that I am able, I hear your heart and the deep desire you have for things of God.  However, Muslims are not the only people who seek God.  My heart beats for God and I love Him with everything I have, imperfectly for sure, but so passionately that I feel consumed by His presence at times.  My Bible teaches me that it was Yeshua, the Son of God Who clothed Himself in humanity in order to do for me what no man can do for himself: to die for my sins.  He then rose from the dead and now sits at the right hand of God.  The Bible also says that we love God because He first loved us.  And there is no more powerful demonstration of His love for mankind than what was done at Calvary.  John 3:16 can be meditated on from now to eternity and we'll never be able to comprehend what it cost Yeshua in both His humanity and divinity to willingly lay down His life for sinful man.  That kind of love so surpasses anything I have ever experienced, and it absolutely slays me.

Hasan, I encourage you to not feel anguish or anger towards those who do not share your faith.  We do not need others to agree with us, but to try to hear each other's heart, because deep down, we are all created in the image of God and are on a pilgrimage to know Him better.  We take different roads in approaching God and He will sort it all out in due time.  God bless and peace to you, my fellow traveler.

kingskid
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Saint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2014 at 2:49am
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

Muslim75:
Quote Does it occur to you that the "NT" you read may be forged and not authentic ? When I read the excerpts you guys quote from the Bible, it seems I am reading some shameless story-telling. This is forged, without a doubt (speaking as a Muslim); only those who accept to believe in it will believe in it.
Sure you won't be surprised, but for an outsider the Quran looks even more like "Alice in Wonderland" than the bible.

Airmano


An outsider must study any book before commenting on it. Let us talk specifics.
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