The Original Sin

Greetings The Saint,

Precisely the relationship I see between the Father and the Son...
part of One 'body'... or entity...
but yes, the Son does nothing without the Father who is in control. 
The Father works through the Son.
Using your analogy... the brain works through the arm... and they are both part of one body.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 10 March 2015 at 1:23pm

The Saint wrote: But your argument makes them unequal, which is contrary to the doctrine of trinity. Isn't it true that in the said holy trinity all three entities are equal to each other? Peace The Saint

Greetings The Saint,

The are referred to as,
'One in being'
the concept of the Trinity only says that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, are One... in being.  In other words, part of One body... or One in entity.

(not a concept we can wholly and fully understand, as this entity, this Creator, exists in a dimension we do not comprehend... we have only, to go on, the things which Yshwe spoke to His Disciples)

They all function as parts of One.
Even in the Biblical scriptures Yshwe did not claim equality, saying instead...
'I do nothing unless the Father wills it'...
'I do nothing of my own accord'
but He also clearly states.
'I and My Father are One'

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 12 March 2015 at 4:24pm

Greetings The Saint,

I shared with you the creed, as I know it.
You are aware, of course, that scripture is a matter of interpretaion,
This is why I said;

(not a concept we can wholly and fully understand, as this entity, this Creator, exists in a dimension we do not comprehend... we have only, to go on, the things which Yshwe spoke to His Disciples)

The 'Creed', the 'doctrine', is written by man trying to explain a thing unexplainable to the human mind, as taken from his own understanding (or interpretation) of the words of Yshwe.


and on this Muhammad was correct,
regarding some matters there was a certain amount of disagreement (in the things not easily understood or explained about Yshwe and His Word), but on the essentials... agreement.
Yshwe was conceived supernaturally and born of Mary, taken as wife of Joseph...
Yshwe taught of good things...
Yshwe was crucified by His own people...
Yshwe was raised from the dead, bringing a good message to all people...
Yshwe is the Divine Son of God, One promised in the earlier scriptures... the One who reveals the meaning in the earlier scriptures.
Yshwe had the power of God... (to do miracles)
those who follow Yshwe receive the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome sinfulness...

So that it does not matter so much how we perceive, or understand, the unity, so much as we agree and accept that Yshwe taught of that unity.  Explaining that unity will always be out of reach, and out of understanding, until the day we meet our Maker.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 14 March 2015 at 7:59pm

The Saint wrote: I understand there can be different interpretations of the scripture. But I still cannot believe that God Almighty would have us believe in a doctrine that He, Himself provides no explanation yet expects us accept it as is? I know that it is not His way.

Greetings The Saint,

Yshwe provides explanation, the difficulty is in man's ability to comprehend.
He often told His Disciples that there were things they would not yet understand.  It may not be possible to explain to a 3-dimensional being things of a multi-dimensional nature.

The Saint wrote: and on this Muhammad was correct, regarding some matters there was a certain amount of disagreement (in the things not easily understood or explained about Yshwe and His Word), but on the essentials... agreement. Can you kindly explain the above?

(There is a surah of the qur'an that speaks of the 'people of the Book' disputing about their scriptures... I'm having trouble finding that surah at the moment, but)
Muhammad was correct that;
People seemed to have had a hard time understanding and agreeing on the concept of what Yshwe taught regarding His nature, and His nature as it related to the Father and the Holy Spirit.  On this there were differing interpretations, opinions, and ideas, and possibly no real, clear understanding.  So, to be sure, there would have been much discussion and debate going on among the church members and leaders.
As I say... how do you explain to a 3-dimensional being and thinker... a multi-dimensional concept?

The Saint wrote: Yshwe was conceived supernaturally and born of Mary, taken as wife of Joseph... Joseph had no role according to Islam. The rest is correct.

Does islam not accept that Mary was the wife of Joseph?

The Saint wrote: Yshwe was crucified by His own people... No, he was saved from Crucifixion by God Almighty. And I already said why he could not have been crucified.

Greetings The Saint,

Whether you believe Yshwe died on the cross or not,
He was 'crucified' by His own people... brought up on charges, and sentenced to death on a cross.

The Saint wrote: Yshwe was raised from the dead, bringing a good message to all people... He never died. He is still alive. He will come down again and then he shall die.

and this makes more sense, in what way?
Why defy, or deny, what many witnesses testified to?  The Romans witnessed and recorded His death, the rending of the heavens, taking Him down from the cross, and saw Him buried.

When you deny His death and resurrection, that His Disciples saw Him walk again on earth, and saw Him ascend into heaven,
you deny His whole message, His reason for coming.... the message that we can all have eternal life.

Yes, Yshwe lives... Yes, He will come again... but He has life eternal.  I wonder if, when He comes again, He will come in flesh.

The Saint wrote: So that it does not matter so much how we perceive, or understand, the unity, so much as we agree and accept that Yshwe taught of that unity. Explaining that unity will always be out of reach, and out of understanding, until the day we meet our Maker. Jesus PBUH never used the word trinity. The bible does not have the word. And the only place it is said to be referred is known now as a forgery. Peace The Saint

'Go and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.'
(the Word of Yshwe from His own mouth, recorded in the book of Matthew)

¹⁹ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

It doesn't really matter that He didn't use a particular word... the word Trinity.  It is quite clear from His Word that there is a Trinity... a unity of 3...

and this is quite clear from the beginning when the Creator said...

'let Us create man in Our image'

and by the fact that all through the qu'ran, allah refers to himself as we.

The Saint wrote: Yshwe is the Divine Son of God, One promised in the earlier scriptures... the One who reveals the meaning in the earlier scriptures. The OT does not talk about a son of god. If you know of a reference to this effect, please quote it here.

This will take a bit more time to compose a proper reply to. 
Essentially a study of the prophesy given in the book of Isaiah.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart



Edited by Caringheart - 31 March 2015 at 4:34pm