The Original Sin

airmano wrote: Hey Ahmad, Just for curiosity: Do you have many of these nutters in your country ? Airmano

While on the Western borders, we have repulsed their onslaught, we do have their leftover sympathizers in many shapes and forms.

Greetings The Saint,
Two of your statements prompted a response from me.

- Is it really so hard to understand One God in three parts?

Greetings, CH! Yes, it is!

Do you really expect God to be one dimensional, or two or even 3 dimensional? a thing simple for the human mind to comprehend?

Dimension is a concept which cannot apply to Allah SWT as He is unique. There is nothing like Him that we could dream or imagine.

The Quran says: SURA 112. Ikhlas, or Purity (of Faith)
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4. And there is none like unto Him.

Now, tell me is there still room for speculation? No.


- the way that any deceiver works is by taking just enough of the truth to make himself believable (in order to deceive).

How can we even think of deception when Quran is there for everyone to judge for themselves its message and its guidance and its credentials. Btw, what is the deception?

No one would fall for a blatant lie... but if you lace a lie with just enough of the truth then you have the tools to succeed in your deception.
or if you take the Truth and lace it with that little bit of a lie....
'a little bit of yeast works through the whole batch of dough'
spoiling the whole of it.
It is how satan works. It is why the culture is so deceived. Satan has been introducing little bits of lies for generations, his purpose to corrupt the whole of creation.
they having lost their way.... turned from the Truth of God
having wandered off the true path of the Creator...
believing instead in men and their teachings.

While it is agreed upon that mankind has, indeed, lost its way due to satan's viles but Allah Almighty has continued to guide us through His servants. Unfortunately, some greedy men have tried to change that guidance which has been coming to us again and again. Thus misleading chunks of humanity astray. Clearly, the periodical editing of the word of God is apparent in the Bible.

The qur'an contains some of the Truth, but not the fullness of Truth.

The Quran, is a protected book. Safe from human manipulation as it is saved in the bosoms of men, huffaz, who know the Quran by heart. Perpetuating a line of huffaz over all generations. Thus ensuring its absolute genuineness.

It is the complete truth just as Jesus PBUH predicted.

JOHN 16:12
12 �I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

Greetings The Saint,
On the one hand you are saying that God can not be limited,
and in the next breath you are saying God is 'indivisible, One only One',
but going on to say 'we are not aware of all His dimensions because He does not reveal all of them'.

Greetings CH,

True. Have you ever wondered what kind of a statue will it be if one tried to depict the trinity through it? Also why have you not wondered why there isn't such a statue anywhere on earth? Because if there were one it would look very much the hindu trinity!

So where is the problem with the Trinity concept of God? Knowing the Trinity does not mean there are not other aspects of God that we do not know, or that are not revealed. These three are what have been revealed.

Revealed where? And why is not even a semblance of the trinity to be seen anywhere in the OT? 1 John 5:7, 1 Timothy 3:16 have been proved as fraudulent entries?


The plural Elohim, "us" and "our", in Genesis 1:26 (just like the We in the qur'an) reveal that God is a plurality. The singular El, "his" and "he", in Genesis 1:27 revealed that this plurality is all a part of one".

No! That is definitely and obviously not so. We and us are royal pronouns. And Elohim besides being a pronoun of plurality also indicates respect. in the Quran there is duality at all on the issue.

The Truth of the Bible is revealed, and clear to me, just by reading.
Just by reading it is easy to see the things that have come to pass, just as they were said that they would...
and the things that are right now coming to pass, just as the Bible said that they would.
I only know one way that is possible...
The Bible contains the fullness of Truth.
(I am always astounded and amazed by this.)


You want to know how by just one criteria Bible is proved to be in error? Its prophecies.

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.--Mt.24:34

As a punishment for killing Abel, God says Cain will be "a fugitive and a vagabond." Yet in just a few verses (4:16-17) Cain will settle down, marry, have a son, and build a city. This is not the activity one would expect from a fugitive and a vagabond. 4:12

God promises Abram and his descendants all of the land of Canaan. But both history and the bible (Acts 7:5 and Hebrews 11:13) show that God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 13:15, 15:18, 17:8, 28:13-14

God promises to make Isaac's descendents as numerous as "the stars of heaven", which, of course, never happened. The Jews have always been, and will always be, a small minority. 22:17-18, 26:4

Jeremiah prophesies that all nations of the earth will embrace Judaism. This has not happened. 3:17

The prophecy given in Isaiah 7:14 referred not to a virgin but to a young woman, living at the time of the prophecy. And Jesus, of course, was called Jesus -- and is not called Emmanuel in any verse in the New Testament. 1:23

Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. 16:28

Jesus says the gospel will be preached to all nations "and then shall the end come. Well according to Paul the gospel has been preached to everyone (Rom.10:18) yet the end hasn't come. 24:14

There are many more examples.

Mark 13:32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. If Messiah was God, he would know that day, that is the End of this system of things. The Omnipotent God knows all things because with him no declaration will be impossible.

�      John 7:16 Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. Here Jesus or Yahushua is referring to another person, thus showing they are two distinct beings. Furthermore the One who does the sending is far superior in rank to the one who is sent.

�     1 Corinthians 11:3: Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is YHWH [Jehovah or Yahweh> - Is a man and woman literally the same person? No, well neither is Christ and God, for how could God be head over his own self. Rather God is head over all his creatures including the Celestial Christ.

�     1 Corinthians 15:28:When Jesus or Yahushua hands over the kingdom to his God and Father ,then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. God is subject to no one and it would be blasphemy to imply

such a thing, but Christ is eternally subject to the Maker of all things.

�     Ephesians 1:3-Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. Consequently, our Lord Jesus has a God over him.

�     Ephesians 1:17I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[a> of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. Again, our Lord Jesus has a God over him.

�     1 Peter 1:3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, A 3 rd time, our Lord Jesus has a God over him.

�     Revelation 1:6 -Jesus has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father�to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. A 4th time, our Lord Jesus has a God over him.

�      Micah 5:4-Jesus will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of YHWH, in the majesty of the name of YHWH his God. And they will live securely, for then his greatness will reach to the ends of the earth. A 5th time, our Lord Jesus has a God over him.

�      John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' A 6th time, our Lord Jesus has a God over him.

�      Revelation 3:12- Jesus said, �Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, A 7th time, our Lord Jesus has a God over him. Now understand this that the number 7 in the Bible represents completeness, so these 7 scriptures testify that our God is completely over Jesus in rank, eternity, power and might and majesty.

�     Mark 12: 28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, YHWH our God, YHWH is One.[e> 30 Love YHWH your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with your entire mind and with all your strength.'

The Saint wrote: Dimension is a concept which cannot apply to Allah SWT as He is unique. There is nothing like Him that we could dream or imagine. The Quran says: SURA 112. Ikhlas, or Purity (of Faith) 1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; 2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; 3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4. And there is none like unto Him. Now, tell me is there still room for speculation? No.

Greetings The Saint,
Why does unique preclude dimension?
It seems to me multi-dimensional goes hand in hand with unique.  :-)

The Saint wrote: ... what is the deception?

 The deception is that islam contains some of God's Truth, but it leads people away from God by denying it's follower's the message of Christ.

The Saint wrote: The Quran, is a protected book. Safe from human manipulation as it is saved in the bosoms of men, huffaz, who know the Quran by heart. Perpetuating a line of huffaz over all generations. Thus ensuring its absolute genuineness. It is the complete truth just as Jesus PBUH predicted. JOHN 16:12 12 �I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.

Do people really think, that somehow, repeating certain things often enough will make them true?

Isn't this just repeating what you have always been told?
Where is the proof?
The qur'an was compiled by men...
by men, hearing the words that came from Muhammad, which Muhammad said came from allah.

There is zero support for your final claim about the comforter.
Yshwe clearly said that the Comforter would come to His Disciples, and would remain with them always.
Muhammad never knew the Disciples of Yshwe, and Muhammad is dead.
The verse of John clearly states that the Comforter 'will glorify Christ'... something which Muhammad does not do.
The only people glorifying Yshwe, are the Christians.

asalaam and blessings to you,
Caringheart