IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Interfaith Dialogue
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Does God beget ?  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Does God beget ?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4142434445 53>
Author
Message
minuteman View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member

Joined: 25 March 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1642
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2008 at 2:36am
Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

Originally posted by minuteman minuteman wrote:

  robin, Please be explicit. Not too brief. Was the body disposed off as for Abraham and Issac and Jacob? Welcome, for understanding what you are trying to tell us. Thanks.
 
 
This is all that the Bible says on this:-
 
Deuteronomy 34:5-6
After that Moses the servant of Jehovah died there in the land of Mo�ab at the order of Jehovah. 6 And he (God) proceeded to bury him in the valley in the land of Mo�ab in front of Beth-pe�or, and nobody has come to know his grave down to this day.
 
 WE cannot believe this to be the part of Deutronomy. That book is of Moses. How can it say "After that Moses died and he proceeded to bury him..
 
 Similar is the case of the bible (gospels). They tell about the death of Jesus and his final disappearance. That cannot be from God to Jesus. How can it say that Jesus went up... It means some people are describing it. That cannot be sacred word of God.
 
 Please tell again if Jesus died and his body was disposed of similar to the case of other prophets. Or it was different to other prophets but similar only to the disposal of the body of Moses.
 
 If it was similar to the case of Moses then tell us what made you think like that? Do you have any verse in support of it that the Body of Jesus was disposed liek that of Moses. Please do not make things from yourself. Who told you that?
Back to Top
robin View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 June 2008 at 10:14am
[/QUOTE]
 
 
This is all that the Bible says on this:-
 
Deuteronomy 34:5-6
After that Moses the servant of Jehovah died there in the land of Mo�ab at the order of Jehovah. 6 And he (God) proceeded to bury him in the valley in the land of Mo�ab in front of Beth-pe�or, and nobody has come to know his grave down to this day.
 
1
WE cannot believe this to be the part of Deutronomy. That book is of Moses. How can it say "After that Moses died and he proceeded to bury him..
 
2
Similar is the case of the bible (gospels). They tell about the death of Jesus and his final disappearance. That cannot be from God to Jesus. How can it say that Jesus went up... It means some people are describing it. That cannot be sacred word of God.
 
3
Please tell again if Jesus died and his body was disposed of similar to the case of other prophets. Or it was different to other prophets but similar only to the disposal of the body of Moses.
 
4
If it was similar to the case of Moses then tell us what made you think like that? Do you have any verse in support of it that the Body of Jesus was disposed liek that of Moses. Please do not make things from yourself. Who told you that?
[/QUOTE]
 
1
Joshua completed the last portion of the Book of Deuteronomy 
 
2
The true worships of the ONE God inspired Jesus first followers to fill in the deatils about Jesus etc.
 
 
3
The exact deatils we do not know!
 
4
Jehovah God evidently disposed of Jesus� fleshly body in his own way (possibly disintegrating it into the atoms of which it was constituted), see Luke 24:2, 3, 22, 23; John 20:2.


Edited by robin - 09 June 2008 at 12:52am
Back to Top
minuteman View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member

Joined: 25 March 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1642
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 June 2008 at 8:14pm
robin, I am thankful that you have replied to my post point by point and you have been honest  to a great extent. Thanks. I will pose more questions later.
Back to Top
honeto View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Male Islam
Joined: 20 March 2008
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2008 at 5:38pm
Robin, I think you missed my last post, here it is again:
Hi Robin,
thanks for answering those questions. I need to clarify your answer to my last question:
d) does the contents of the Bible have inconsistancies if any?
you answered:
D) No.
By that 'no' you mean that what we have today as the Bible (the ones that are used by many Christians around the globe does not have any inconsistancies or contradictions (of its own statements) within its contents, correct?
 
Another thing I want to discuss with you is a statement you wrote in your last reply to minuteman. That statement caught my attentions, you said:
"When Jesus was returned to heaven (the spirit realm) he was given his divine nature back, he returned to being a spirit person like God is and the angels"
 
That statement of yours creats concern for me when  you say " he was given his devine nature back". So you do believe that Jesus is devine or was devine "to be given back his devine nature"?
The second part of your statement says " being a spirit like God is and the angels"
So are you saying that Jesus is like God or is God since he is now up there in spirit form, are you also equating angels with God when you say: "..like God is and the angels"
 
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

Back to Top
robin View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2008 at 12:59am
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Robin, I think you missed my last post, here it is again:
Hi Robin,
thanks for answering those questions. I need to clarify your answer to my last question:
d) does the contents of the Bible have inconsistancies if any?
you answered:
D) No.
By that 'no' you mean that what we have today as the Bible (the ones that are used by many Christians around the globe does not have any inconsistancies or contradictions (of its own statements) within its contents, correct?
 
Another thing I want to discuss with you is a statement you wrote in your last reply to minuteman. That statement caught my attentions, you said:
"When Jesus was returned to heaven (the spirit realm) he was given his divine nature back, he returned to being a spirit person like God is and the angels"
 
That statement of yours creats concern for me when  you say " he was given his devine nature back". So you do believe that Jesus is devine or was devine "to be given back his devine nature"?
The second part of your statement says " being a spirit like God is and the angels"
So are you saying that Jesus is like God or is God since he is now up there in spirit form, are you also equating angels with God when you say: "..like God is and the angels"
 
Hasan
 

Contradictions in the Bible are because of

a) Poor Translating
b) Misunderstandings
c) Poor Interpretation
d) Trinitarian Bias or a combination of the above! 
Ask yourself, is it logical to think that God would contridict himself?

 

 

"Divine" in this context means a spirit being (not of flesh and blood), when Jesus went back into he became a spirit being or divine being again.

Back to Top
honeto View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Male Islam
Joined: 20 March 2008
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2008 at 4:49pm
Robin,
you missed a very important one:
e) poor transmission
 
As far as " Ask yourself, is it logical to think that God would contridict himself?
Absolutely not, the Creator and Knower of All, does not contradict, but those who transmitted that word to us can!
And that's what I say, the Bible has changed many hands (authorities) in its journey to this times and it has been written and compiled by unknown number of men, all of whom don't seem to be inspired by God rather other intersts as its contents prove.
Contradictions in the Bible will not prove that God contradicts, rather those who were given to be its keepers.
Before we get into discussing contrdictions of the Bible, let me asure you that the purpose behind such study is nothing more than to find the truth of the matter.
Let me ask you this:
a) how many contradictions would you need as to prove thatthe Bible has contradictions in it?
b) If found such contradictions what will it mean to you?
 
Hasan
 
 


Edited by honeto - 11 June 2008 at 4:52pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

Back to Top
robin View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 1:00am
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Robin,
you missed a very important one:
e) poor transmission
 
As far as " Ask yourself, is it logical to think that God would contridict himself?
Absolutely not, the Creator and Knower of All, does not contradict, but those who transmitted that word to us can!
And that's what I say, the Bible has changed many hands (authorities) in its journey to this times and it has been written and compiled by unknown number of men, all of whom don't seem to be inspired by God rather other intersts as its contents prove.
Contradictions in the Bible will not prove that God contradicts, rather those who were given to be its keepers.
Before we get into discussing contrdictions of the Bible, let me asure you that the purpose behind such study is nothing more than to find the truth of the matter.
Let me ask you this:
a) how many contradictions would you need as to prove thatthe Bible has contradictions in it?
b) If found such contradictions what will it mean to you?
 
Hasan
 

A

We do know who wrote each book of the Bible:-

 
The Bible books in chronological order

 

Book                         Writer                        Date Completed         Time covered

 

Genesis                    Moses                       1513 B.C.E.               "In the Beginning" to 1657

Exodus                     Moses                       1512 B.C.E                1657-1512

Leviticus                  Moses                       1512 B.C.E.               1 Month (1512)

Numbers                  Moses                       1473 B.C.E.               1512-1473

Deuteronomy            Moses                       1473 B.C.E.               2 Months (1473)

Job                          Moses                       c. 1473 B.C.E.           Over 140 yrs between 1657 and 1473

Joshua                     Joshua                     c. 1450 B.C.E.           1473-c. 1450

Judges                     Samuel                     c. 1100 B.C.E.           c.1450-c.1120

Ruth                         Samuel                     c. 1090 B.C.E.           11 yrs of Judge's rule

1 Samuel                  Samuel; Gad; Nathan                1077 B.C.E.               c.1180-1077

2 Samuel                  Gad; Nathan.            c. 1040 B.C.E.           1077-c.1040

Songs of Sol            Solomon                  c. 1020 B.C.E.

Ecclesiastes              Solomon                  b. 1000 B.C.E.

Jonah                       Jonah                       c. 844 B.C.E.

Joel                          Joel                          c. 820 B.C.E. (?)

Amos                        Amos                        c. 803 B.C.E.

Hosea                       Hosea                       a. 745 B.C.E.             b. 803-a. 74

Isaiah                       Isaiah                       c. 732 B.C.E.             c. 778-732

Micah                       Micah                       b. 716 B.C.E.            c. 777-716

Proverbs                  Solomon; Agur; Lemual. c. 716 B.C.E.

Zephaniah                                Zephaniah                                b. 648 B.C.E.

Nahum                     Nahum                     b. 632 B.C.E.

Habakkuk                 Habakkuk                 c. 628 B.C.E. (?)

Lamentations            Jeremiah                  607 B.C.E.

Obadiah                   Obadiah                   c. 607 B.C.E.

Ezekiel                     Ezekiel                     591 B.C.E.                613-c. 591

1 Kings                    Jeremiah                  {1 roll                       c. 1040-580

2 Kings                    Jeremiah                  {580 B.C.E.

Jeremiah                  Jeremiah                  580 B.C.E.                647-580    

Daniel                      Daniel                      536 B.C.E.                618-c. 536

Haggai                     Haggai                     520 B.C.E.                112 days (520)

Zechariah                 Zechariah                 518 B.C.E.                520-518                    

Esther                      Mordecai                  c. 474 B.C.E.             c. 484-474

1 Chronicles             Ezra                         {1 roll                       After 1 Chron 9:44:

2 Chronicles             Ezra                         { c. 460 B.C.E.          1077-537

Ezra                         Ezra                         c. 460 B.C.E.             537-c. 467

Psalms                     David & Others         c. 460 B.C.E.

Nehemiah                 Nehemiah                 a. 443 B.C.E.             456-a. 443

Malachi                     Malachi                     a. 443 B.C.E.

Matthew                    Matthew                    c. 41 C.E.                  2 B.C.E.-33C.E.

1Thessalonians         Paul                         c. 50 C.E.

2Thessalonians         Paul                         c. 51 C.E.

Galatians                  Paul                         c. 50-52 C.E.

Luke                         Luke                         c. 56-58 C.E.             3 B.C.E.-33C.E.

Romans                    Paul                         c. 56 C.E.                  33 C.E.-61 C.E.

1 Corinthians           Paul                         c. 55 C.E.

2 Corinthians           Paul                         c. 55 C.E.

Ephesians                Paul                         c. 60-61 C.E.

Philippians               Paul                         c. 60-61 C.E.

Colossians               Paul                         c. 60-61 C.E.

Philemon                  Paul                         c. 60-61 C.E.

Mark                         Mark                         c. 60-65 C.E.             29 C.E.-33C.E.

Hebrews                   Paul                         c. 61 C.E.

Acts                          Luke                         c. 61 C.E.                  33 C.E.-61 C.E.

1 Timothy                 Paul                         c. 61-64 C.E.

Titus                         Paul                         c. 61-64 C.E.

James                       James                       b. 62 C.E.

1 Peter                      Peter                        c. 62-64 C.E.

2 Peter                      Peter                        c. 64 C.E.

2 Timothy                 Paul                        c. 65 C.E.

Jude                         Jude                         c. 65 C.E.

Revelation                John                        c. 96 C.E.

John                        John                        c. 98 C.E.                  After Prologue 29-33 C.E.

1 John                      John                        c. 98 C.E.

2 John                      John                        c. 98 C.E.

3 John                      John                        c. 98 C.E.

 

a. = after   b. = before  c. = about

 

 

B

The Bible does not contradict itself.  It is normally a case of misunderstandings 9 times out of 10 Hassan.



Edited by robin - 12 June 2008 at 1:01am
Back to Top
honeto View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Male Islam
Joined: 20 March 2008
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2008 at 5:48pm
Robin,
I am waiting for your response to: a, and b
 
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4142434445 53>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.