Abrogation?

Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

halfalife wrote: The quran does not contradict itself, so the reality is there is no need whatsoever for the abrogations.........they chose a belief of conflict in which verses have to be abrogated through the doctrine of men as to validate their beliefs and in some cases their hostility and even violence against others.

you are superimposing your christian history onto the Islamic one and assuming events all developed along the same lines. Our scholars did not commit the same atrocities as yours in the name of religion in fact you will be hard pressed finding similar atrocities committed by any scholar since they never held power throughout Muslim history but Dynastic rulers similar to the Roman empire in its decline did.

We never developed anything like your church or pope and they never pretended to forgive the sins of man on behalf of God or sell tickets to heaven......i could go on and on about the distinction between both civilisations and why you cant jump the gun and assume simply becouse things sound the same, the bottom line is Muslims behave/react differently to Christians [or Hindu's, Buddhists....etc] in the same situation becouse they have been conditioned to perceive things differently just like other religions or societies condition the individual to think along there lines of there teachings [which is why i have always made statements like western or new muslim].


Edited by rami - 18 August 2008 at 9:40pm

Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

Br its better that you admit that you have not understood the subject clearly rather than to criticise the likes of Ibn Umar, Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam shafii.

It is also ignorant to question these individuals and ask why they did something, critisise them for it and not even have looked at what it is they did or said on the subject or the evidance they produced. if any person can do a text search of bukhari and come up with a clear hadith for its existance what of the scholars who had access to volumes of works and lived not 150 years after hijrah.

until i posted my original reply i doubt you even knew there was such an Islamic science so please can we be reasonable in our assumptions and conclusions.

rami wrote: . if any person can do a text search of bukhari and come up with a clear hadith for its existance what of the scholars who had access to volumes of works and lived not 150 years after hijrah.

Ron Webb wrote: I'm not sure what disagreement remains here.  It seems like everyone agrees that there are no contradictions in the Quran, and I am satisfied with the explanation of abrogation -- essentially that the abrogated verse is not wrong but merely incomplete, just as the Quran itself was incomplete at that time. I am surprised that rami imples that the Quran contains "flaws in logic", but since he (she?) has chosen not to elaborate I will not  push it here either.