quran and science

airmano wrote: Than you speculate about the reasons why somebody rejects the (divinity) of the Quran. I think you've forgotten about point three: 1.     Man�s love with the pleasures of this world � he finds it very difficult to sacrifice some of the pleasures of this world for the eternal success in the hereafter 2.     Man�s high level of ego � he finds it very difficult to accept the truth that is different from the system in which he is currently in 3.     Critical analysis of the Quran and the innumerable contradictions within, clearly show that the book is of human origin --------------------------------------------------------

Since you have added point no. 3, I understand you are in agreement with the first two points. In that case, if you really work on the first two points, you will see that the point no. 3 disappears automatically. It really works!

airmano wrote: Now to my statement ("we are not made out of clay = Silicates", as the Quran states): Just sum up your own numbers: 95% Carbon, 65% Oxygen, 9.5% Hydrogen? Anyway that's not the point: According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_the_human_body the mass fraction of Silicon in our body is 20�10−6 and even its biological usefulness is disputed. So forget about the clay, don't dig any further. you answered just to clarify the numbers � 95% refers to the entire group of 6 elements (carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur) out of which oxygen is 65% and Hydrogen 9.5% by weight. Hope this clarifies. Sorry, this doesn't clarify anything. By choosing the side lane and reacting onto the percentages you're chickening out on the clay subject! Well, at least you stop digging. -------------------------------------------------------

You specifically asked for the numbers and I replied.

You made a wrong statement as below:

airmano wrote: Most of the clays are (Alumina-)Silicates like Kaolin (Al2Si2O5(OH)4), they are thus Silicon based. So already on the level of (chemical) elements our body and clay got nothing in common. Therefore this statement is thus simply wrong when taken literally.

This has been already replied, again quoted below:

In a human body the elements carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur makes up 95% of the living tissues, with a total of 26 different elements including Silicon, with oxygen being 65% and Hydrogen 9.5% by weight. So we can see there is much in common between human body and clay at the elemental level and the quranic statement of man being created from the essence of clay is very well substantiated.

Even Aluminium is present in the human body. So at an elemental level all the elements in your clay formula Al2Si2O5(OH)4 are present in the human body.

airmano wrote: You do nothing else than appealing to a miracle here! What would stop the water from running off into lower areas? A gigantic wall that God built to retain the water and drown the people?? This is exactly the point that I observe quite often in discussions with Muslims: On the surface the saying is: "Islam is pro-science" As soon as science contradicts the Quran - as it is the case here - (be it "top" or "on" the mountain it still implies something like >1000m) the eyes are shut by saying "And considering the overall wisdom of Quran, I won�t waste my time speculating on possibilities that have no value". You could as well say: "If reality enters in conflict with the Quran, the Quran is automatically right. (or worse).

I don�t see the need for any miracles here and I don�t see science contradicting Quran either, but I see your personal speculation contradicting Quran, which is fine. I have no problems with scientifically established facts, but I have a problem with mere speculations presented under the disguise of science. If you can scientifically establish without any trace of doubt that a flood destroying the people of prophet Noah (pbuh) was absolutely impossible, then there is a case for discussion. Otherwise, there is no point in wasting time on speculations.

Going by your logic, there shall be no flooding on earth as the water always has an opportunity to drain off to a lower area as there is something below the earth surface always, but I see floods happening around the world all the time. And I don�t see any scientific contradiction in this as my simple logic of physics tells me that a flood is possible anywhere if the water inflow exceeds the water outflow!
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airmano wrote: Actually, I do get confused! If you're interpretation was correct, Mohamed (or God) would deliberately lie to those that believe in multiple creators: Knowing that there is only one creator - but saying that there are many! Is Allah a liar ?

I�m not surprised if you are confused, because I see this is something you are really good at!

Man is given with the free will to choose his path and you are responsible in choosing your path. So if you choose not to accept the remaining 6,235 verses from Quran and get confused with this one verse, don�t blame Allah and prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for that.
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airmano wrote: To end the embryology story: Could you provide me with a neutral link (like Wikipedia or University pages) or cite the line(s) in a chapter of a medical/science book supporting your theory(-ies)? i.e. on the sequence: "...made that lump into bones, and We clothed those bones with flesh". To repeat, the temporal sequence: A) lump transforms into bones and than B)(These)bones [are] getting covered/surrounded by flesh, where you insist so heavily on its correctness. I do have access to libraries to check. When I say "neutral", this implies obviously a scientific and not a (biased) Islamic link/website or book. Eagerly awaiting your answers

I have already referred to the Quran and it�s interpretations by experts in the field of embryology with an understanding of these Quranic verses. Now you are free to quote your neutral libraries if you have any disagreement.

airmano wrote: The Qur'an is a spritual book that has no scientific intentions. Airmano

I totally agree. The Muslim scientists of the Golden Islamic Age read the Quran to enhance their spiritual lives, but they rediscovered the ancient Greek scientific texts, in order to understand them and improve them. Trying to discover science in Quranic verses is like contemplating the shape of cumulus clouds. This looks like a sheep, doesn't it? Or a goat. Perhaps a cat.


Edited by Matt Browne - 04 October 2014 at 3:24am

Matt Browne wrote: I totally agree. The Muslim scientists of the Golden Islamic Age read the Quran to enhance their spiritual lives, but they rediscovered the ancient Greek scientific texts, in order to understand them and improve them. Trying to discover science in Quranic verses is like contemplating the shape of cumulus clouds. This looks like a sheep, doesn't it? Or a goat. Perhaps a cat.

Quran is the ultimate book of wisdom from the creator to guide humans to the right path to achieve the ultimate goal of human existence - the success in the hereafter.

Quran uses a variety of ways to drive home the unity of Allah and the need for humans to match their will with the will of Allah - references to various phenomena in the natural world are one of them to guide men of understanding. Some of these references fall within the limited realm of science. Whereas the Quranic realm is far beyond the limited realm of science.

For someone who approaches the Quran with the right intent these scientific references in Quran are clear and are strikingly far beyond the the general level of knowledge available at it's time of revelation.

A generic statement of denial is the easiest way, but a look at the details will clearly show the folly in such statements. It would be a good idea to read this thread from the beginning to understand some of these scientific references before jumping to wrong conclusions.

MashALLAH members explain it so vastly ....