Revisiting an "Old Issue"

The logic of the original post is flawed. If this argument is accepted then one might argue that murderers, child molesters, and rapists deserve tolerance as well.

Homosexuality is legal in the US but it is a sin in Islam. The American society and legislature have made homosexuality legal, but they cannot make it Halal. Only Allah (swt) has the authority to make Halal and Haram.

HHMuslims are not required to be tolerant of sin. Asking us to do otherwise misses the whole point of submitting to God�s will as opposed to the whims of the society.

The reason I'm stating these reason here is because I've notice that even today some f our languages have rendered themselves intolerant towards others. I noticed mean unwilling to give other men hugs they do not want to be categorized and labeled as being a "fag" which I might say the latter is an intolerant and inappropriate word to denote homosexuals.

Israfil, that is actually western culture. When I was in Pakistan the men held arms and hands ALL the time. Probably did that more then with family female relatives. It was an eye-opener for me as a guest. I was staring at them! For others, no big deal. Because in Islam you don�t really show affection for the opposite sex in public. Maybe hold hands.. but again, it goes back to the public vs. private concept of sexuality.

So how do we explain this? By helping them fight against a possible biological urge? By praying for them? By telling them to repent to God? Isn't it a bigger crime for one to deny one's trueself?

See that is a different type of notion.. about �denying one�s true self.� Yes one should in many cases. The obligation, if you have certain values is to love Allah first and foremost. This life is an illusion. Now people don�t have this as their value system then so be it. But its like, there are things I �like� that I refrain from doing as it is not TRULY helpful to me.  Its hard to explain. But its like the man who hits 40. His wife is older and bore his children. Maybe got a bit out of shape. His �true self� says I want a younger, prettier wife. What does he do? He leaves her and finds a young woman. Just as an example. Now in Islam it is not about this life, but the afterlife. And yes, maybe he can find a greater reason to do the �right thing.�  We view happiness as a �right.� But how we define �happiness� is so tied up to pleasing ourselves. That is one world view. Another view is that when I please and obey people, I please Allah. The binds that tie people are deeper. Not about �me� but about others.    

And, what would happen to these folks if they were only in a place with the opposite sex? Say a gay man with only women? Would he sleep with them, or deny himself sex for really long periods of time??

And really, whether �sexuality� is socially controlled or created is irrelevant in that for Muslims, society IS geared towards a certain dynamic and Muslims feel it should be that way. It is what we are told to do by the Quran and Sunnah. Like why people don�t �date� or men and women pray in separate sections or areas. There is purpose.

Also�

1. putting homosexualtiy with pedophila and rape are not the same. For the issue is consent and violence. In rape as in pedophilia, the woman (or man in rape) and young children are not giving their consent. So on that level they are separate.  All might be considered acts against God, but not all are considered acts against innocent people (unless it is rape)

2. There is the angle of private vs. public. There are all types of "deviant" behavior. All over the world. As we know, it is Allah's to judge. But what is different, I think, is the public nature of sexuality of all forms as we see ehre in the west. What two people do in their bedroom is up to them. But when it becomes public... then it is an issue. And maybe as the west is so publically sexualized that people who are gay want they same as everyone else.

3. one may have "feelings" but the question is action upon them. If I like to drink I should refrain. And as been pointed out, yes they may not be too keen on having sex with the oppostie sex, but they still can.  We are not meant to be "happy" per say in this world. We all have different trials. The people in Burma face one now, the people in war town countries faace them, people with diseases face them, people who need mor self-control face them.  Unfortunately society is about the here and now, my "pleasures" and going for them are constantly stimulated. And there is no discipline. So to think someone who has different ideas should refrain from the sexualized culture.. well... they are just as confused by it all as many people are.

4. When speaking about tolerance.. the  question always arises as to what is acceptable in any culture.. or group. For instance, if going to the masjid, there are probably men who abuse their wives. Yet they are tolerated.. Or there are people who go to clubs and sleep around with the opposite sex. And yet the family does not disown them?  But will an openly gay couple be accepted? No.  I am not passing  judgement, just thinking a few thoughts.