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Andalus 
Moderator Group
Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1187
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 Posted: 24 July 2008 at 7:20am |
 robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
minuteman wrote:
Dear Hasan, even though the church has altered the words of the original Jewish book, it still does not prove anything for Jesus. Please see:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was never called wonderful. He never counselled (took opinion, Mushawarat) He was never mighty God, eternal father (he was not a father as they say he did not marry) He Jesus was not a prince of peace. He could not bring any peace in his own time.
This verse does not apply to Jesus. But checked carefully, it applies to our prophet Muhammad in all respects. I will post the details soon. It was our prophet who was told to take opinion. It is written in the Quran "Their (Muslims) matters are decided by mutual consultation". The prince of peace also applies to our prophet. The religion that he brought is called Peace (Islam).
Please note that there should be a comma between "Wonderful" and "Counseler". This is a trick of the church to omit the comma. |
As Muhammad is not worshiper of Jehovah God, the God of Moses, who brings this about, it does not apply to him:-
Isaiah 9:7
"The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this." |
1) There is no such name "Jehova", so in actuallity, Moses did not worship "Jehova" either.
2) You "assert" Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. Please back up your "assertion". |
Exo 3:15 And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My title from generation to generation.
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Pslam 83
16 Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek Your name, O Jehovah.
17 Let them be ashamed and troubled forever; yea, let them be put to shame, and lost;
18 so that men may know that Your name is JEHOVAH, that You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Eze 38:23 So I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself. And I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am Jehovah.
God�s name, Jehovah, appears nearly 7,000 times in ancient Bible manuscripts.
Moses did worship Jehovah; Muhammed did not! I stand by my post! |
You are not quoting the actual "bible", there is no "J" in the Hebrew TANACH. Acccording to the Hebrew, there is no "Jehova", hence you are not worshipping the God of Moses, and Moses did not worship any God named "Jehova". Your almost "cult like" group tries to use the name game as a gimmick, but be aware, you will not find "Jehova" in the Tenakh. Solid scholarship, not gimmicks, is what will reveal the validity of a group.
Finally, you have not provided any argument that Porphet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. If you are going to assert such strong opinions, we ask that you show what you bases is. Making bold claims and stating them as fact is not only juvenile, but no productive, and for the spirit of the forum, you are asked to provide more than just bold claims. |
The following are various Jewish Bible translations which all use the divine name in its Hebrew form amongst the English text at Exodus 6:3, they read as follows:-
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty but by My name vuvh I made Me not known to them" ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic text A New Translation The Jewish Publications Society of America.
"I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make myself known to them by My name vuvh. " ftn. This divine name is traditionally not pronounced; instead, Adonai, "(the) LORD," is regularly."-'TANAKH The Holy Scriptures' The New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text The Jewish Publications Society Philadelphia, New York, Jerusalem.
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name vuvh I made Me Not known to them." ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Soncino Chumash. The Five Books of Moses with Haphtaroth.
some other rendering of the same verse from various English translations:-
"I was seen by Avraham, by Yitzhak, and by Yaakov as God Shaddai, but (by) my name YHWH I was not known to them."-The Five Books of Moses by Everatt Fox
"And I appeared vnto Abraham, vnto Isaac, and vuto Iacob, by the Name of God Almighty, but by my name IEHOVAH was I not knowen to them."-K.J.V. 1611 Edition
"And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them."-New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
"the Almighty God who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob-though I did not revel my name, Jehovah, to them."-THE WAY The Catholic Living Bible
"To Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob I appeared as El Shaddai, but I did not make my name Yahweh known to them."-The New Jerusalem Bible
Spanish Bible: Ex 6:1-3:
"JEHOVA respondi� � Mois�s: Ahora ver�s lo que yo har� � Fara�n; porque con mano fuerte los ha de dejar ir; y con mano fuerte los ha de echar de su tierra. Habl� todav�a Dios � Mois�s, y d�jole: Yo soy JEHOVA;Y aparec� � Abraham, � Isaac y � Jacob bajo el nombre de Dios Omnipotente, mas en mi nombre JEHOVA no me notifiqu� � ellos."-'LA SANTA BIBLIA' by Reina-Valera, 1909
In the above texts is the name of Almighty God "Jehovah" as translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, vuvh, YHWH which is a different word form than that of "LORD" (Heb. hbst) as in the Holy and inspired Scriptures that where penned to bring praise and Worshipers to Him, Almighty God!
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There is no single verse that contains the name "Jehova". Nothing you pasted above disagrees with me. The term "Jehova" is a 13th century Christian mistake. The Hebrew tetragrammaton "YHWH" does not translate to "Jehova". Jesus, nor Moses ever spoke that name. |
Yes if does, in Latin from which the English language is derived from; that is why Jesus is called Jesus insted of the Hebrew form "Yesuaha!"
Albert Barns notes on the Bible:-
Exo_6:2
I am the Lord ... - The meaning seems to be this: "I am Jehovah (Yahweh), and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but as to my name Jehovah, I was not made known to them." In other words, the full import of that name was not disclosed to them. See Exo_3:14.
GO TO:-
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I am guessing you did not actually read the link you provided, as it clearly states that "Jehova" is based upon early Christian ignorance and not on any clear rules of translation.
The verse Ex 3:14 further supports my initial statement, as the place where you erroneously place "Jehova", is actually the teragrammaton, which is simply YHWH, whch is the actual "translation" representing Hebrew letters. The fact that God did not reveal His unspoken name does not, in any way, even remotely imply that your sect "really" knows this name, which is nothing more than a mistranslation based upon befuddled scholarship. So once again, you have not shown what I have stated to be wrong, and once again, you provide "evidence" which actually supports what I am saying.
Your statement that English is derived from Latin, and Latin is Jehova for the tetragrammaton, so therefore Jehova is the sacred name is pure rubbish.
1) That Latin is the foundation for English: Non sequitur (meaning "does not follow regarding you attempt to conclude the Jehova is the sacred name.) Even if we accept what you say as true, that English is completely founded upon Latin, this still makes no difference and your conclusion does not follow, not because it is Latin, but because the term is based upon bad scholarship, and it in no way has anything to do wtih the tetragrammaton, which is represented by four Hebrew letters.
2) Jehova cannot be the "sacred name", because no where in the bible does God reveal it. In every place that the tetragrammaton exists, one will find Adonai, or "Elohim". Hence, there is no Latin word for the Hebrew name of God.
3) Moses did not speak Latin, nor did Jesus.
|
That is a history of the NAME from the Bible. It's continued usage and existance shows that NAME has the belssing of Allah to be published world wide and to this point in time nothing has been able to stop it even in all Arabic lands!
As the Bible points out:-
Micah 4:5
For all the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever.
Malachi 3:17-18
"And they will certainly become mine," Jehovah of armies has said, "at the day when I am producing a special property. And I will show compassion upon them, just as a man shows compassion upon his son who is serving him. 18 And YOU people will again certainly see [the distinction] between a righteous one and a wicked one, between one serving God and one who has not served him."
You do not see because you do not want to see! |
You do not make sense because you have so easily given your mind away.
You could not even reply to my points. How can I, or anyone take you seriously?
|
The suggested pornunciation of Jehovah in Hebrew is "Yahweh", from "YHWH" which is in the Bible thousands of times!!!
JEHOVAH in The king James Version of the Bible or Authorized Version.
Ex 6:3
Ps 83:18
Isa 12:2; 26:4.
"J":-
Hebrew = "Y" into Greek and Latin as "I" translated into English as "J"
|
Christian audacity. The suggested pronounciation of Jehova in Hebrew? Are you really this obtuse? Your fear of God is so small that you have the nerve to suggest that the mistaken "latin" translation is the actual bases, and the Hebrew the "suggested pronounciation"? You are trying to hard to befuddle the topic in order to save your confounded theolological mess. The is a "suggested" pronounciation of YHWH, though no is actually sure since NO ONE EVER PRONOUNCED IT, and the word Jehova is a latin mistranslation (a mistake) that has nothing in common with the Hebrew word. Your audacity knows no bounds.
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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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robin
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
|
Posted: 24 July 2008 at 9:12am |
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
minuteman wrote:
Dear Hasan, even though the church has altered the words of the original Jewish book, it still does not prove anything for Jesus. Please see:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was never called wonderful. He never counselled (took opinion, Mushawarat) He was never mighty God, eternal father (he was not a father as they say he did not marry) He Jesus was not a prince of peace. He could not bring any peace in his own time.
This verse does not apply to Jesus. But checked carefully, it applies to our prophet Muhammad in all respects. I will post the details soon. It was our prophet who was told to take opinion. It is written in the Quran "Their (Muslims) matters are decided by mutual consultation". The prince of peace also applies to our prophet. The religion that he brought is called Peace (Islam).
Please note that there should be a comma between "Wonderful" and "Counseler". This is a trick of the church to omit the comma. |
As Muhammad is not worshiper of Jehovah God, the God of Moses, who brings this about, it does not apply to him:-
Isaiah 9:7
"The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this." |
1) There is no such name "Jehova", so in actuallity, Moses did not worship "Jehova" either.
2) You "assert" Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. Please back up your "assertion". |
Exo 3:15 And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My title from generation to generation.
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Pslam 83
16 Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek Your name, O Jehovah.
17 Let them be ashamed and troubled forever; yea, let them be put to shame, and lost;
18 so that men may know that Your name is JEHOVAH, that You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Eze 38:23 So I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself. And I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am Jehovah.
God�s name, Jehovah, appears nearly 7,000 times in ancient Bible manuscripts.
Moses did worship Jehovah; Muhammed did not! I stand by my post! |
You are not quoting the actual "bible", there is no "J" in the Hebrew TANACH. Acccording to the Hebrew, there is no "Jehova", hence you are not worshipping the God of Moses, and Moses did not worship any God named "Jehova". Your almost "cult like" group tries to use the name game as a gimmick, but be aware, you will not find "Jehova" in the Tenakh. Solid scholarship, not gimmicks, is what will reveal the validity of a group.
Finally, you have not provided any argument that Porphet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. If you are going to assert such strong opinions, we ask that you show what you bases is. Making bold claims and stating them as fact is not only juvenile, but no productive, and for the spirit of the forum, you are asked to provide more than just bold claims. |
The following are various Jewish Bible translations which all use the divine name in its Hebrew form amongst the English text at Exodus 6:3, they read as follows:-
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty but by My name vuvh I made Me not known to them" ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic text A New Translation The Jewish Publications Society of America.
"I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make myself known to them by My name vuvh. " ftn. This divine name is traditionally not pronounced; instead, Adonai, "(the) LORD," is regularly."-'TANAKH The Holy Scriptures' The New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text The Jewish Publications Society Philadelphia, New York, Jerusalem.
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name vuvh I made Me Not known to them." ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Soncino Chumash. The Five Books of Moses with Haphtaroth.
some other rendering of the same verse from various English translations:-
"I was seen by Avraham, by Yitzhak, and by Yaakov as God Shaddai, but (by) my name YHWH I was not known to them."-The Five Books of Moses by Everatt Fox
"And I appeared vnto Abraham, vnto Isaac, and vuto Iacob, by the Name of God Almighty, but by my name IEHOVAH was I not knowen to them."-K.J.V. 1611 Edition
"And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them."-New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
"the Almighty God who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob-though I did not revel my name, Jehovah, to them."-THE WAY The Catholic Living Bible
"To Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob I appeared as El Shaddai, but I did not make my name Yahweh known to them."-The New Jerusalem Bible
Spanish Bible: Ex 6:1-3:
"JEHOVA respondi� � Mois�s: Ahora ver�s lo que yo har� � Fara�n; porque con mano fuerte los ha de dejar ir; y con mano fuerte los ha de echar de su tierra. Habl� todav�a Dios � Mois�s, y d�jole: Yo soy JEHOVA;Y aparec� � Abraham, � Isaac y � Jacob bajo el nombre de Dios Omnipotente, mas en mi nombre JEHOVA no me notifiqu� � ellos."-'LA SANTA BIBLIA' by Reina-Valera, 1909
In the above texts is the name of Almighty God "Jehovah" as translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, vuvh, YHWH which is a different word form than that of "LORD" (Heb. hbst) as in the Holy and inspired Scriptures that where penned to bring praise and Worshipers to Him, Almighty God!
|
There is no single verse that contains the name "Jehova". Nothing you pasted above disagrees with me. The term "Jehova" is a 13th century Christian mistake. The Hebrew tetragrammaton "YHWH" does not translate to "Jehova". Jesus, nor Moses ever spoke that name. |
Yes if does, in Latin from which the English language is derived from; that is why Jesus is called Jesus insted of the Hebrew form "Yesuaha!"
Albert Barns notes on the Bible:-
Exo_6:2
I am the Lord ... - The meaning seems to be this: "I am Jehovah (Yahweh), and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but as to my name Jehovah, I was not made known to them." In other words, the full import of that name was not disclosed to them. See Exo_3:14.
GO TO:-
|
I am guessing you did not actually read the link you provided, as it clearly states that "Jehova" is based upon early Christian ignorance and not on any clear rules of translation.
The verse Ex 3:14 further supports my initial statement, as the place where you erroneously place "Jehova", is actually the teragrammaton, which is simply YHWH, whch is the actual "translation" representing Hebrew letters. The fact that God did not reveal His unspoken name does not, in any way, even remotely imply that your sect "really" knows this name, which is nothing more than a mistranslation based upon befuddled scholarship. So once again, you have not shown what I have stated to be wrong, and once again, you provide "evidence" which actually supports what I am saying.
Your statement that English is derived from Latin, and Latin is Jehova for the tetragrammaton, so therefore Jehova is the sacred name is pure rubbish.
1) That Latin is the foundation for English: Non sequitur (meaning "does not follow regarding you attempt to conclude the Jehova is the sacred name.) Even if we accept what you say as true, that English is completely founded upon Latin, this still makes no difference and your conclusion does not follow, not because it is Latin, but because the term is based upon bad scholarship, and it in no way has anything to do wtih the tetragrammaton, which is represented by four Hebrew letters.
2) Jehova cannot be the "sacred name", because no where in the bible does God reveal it. In every place that the tetragrammaton exists, one will find Adonai, or "Elohim". Hence, there is no Latin word for the Hebrew name of God.
3) Moses did not speak Latin, nor did Jesus.
|
That is a history of the NAME from the Bible. It's continued usage and existance shows that NAME has the belssing of Allah to be published world wide and to this point in time nothing has been able to stop it even in all Arabic lands!
As the Bible points out:-
Micah 4:5
For all the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever.
Malachi 3:17-18
"And they will certainly become mine," Jehovah of armies has said, "at the day when I am producing a special property. And I will show compassion upon them, just as a man shows compassion upon his son who is serving him. 18 And YOU people will again certainly see [the distinction] between a righteous one and a wicked one, between one serving God and one who has not served him."
You do not see because you do not want to see! |
You do not make sense because you have so easily given your mind away.
You could not even reply to my points. How can I, or anyone take you seriously?
|
The suggested pornunciation of Jehovah in Hebrew is "Yahweh", from "YHWH" which is in the Bible thousands of times!!!
JEHOVAH in The king James Version of the Bible or Authorized Version.
Ex 6:3
Ps 83:18
Isa 12:2; 26:4.
"J":-
Hebrew = "Y" into Greek and Latin as "I" translated into English as "J"
|
Christian audacity. The suggested pronounciation of Jehova in Hebrew? Are you really this obtuse? Your fear of God is so small that you have the nerve to suggest that the mistaken "latin" translation is the actual bases, and the Hebrew the "suggested pronounciation"? You are trying to hard to befuddle the topic in order to save your confounded theolological mess. The is a "suggested" pronounciation of YHWH, though no is actually sure since NO ONE EVER PRONOUNCED IT, and the word Jehova is a latin mistranslation (a mistake) that has nothing in common with the Hebrew word. Your audacity knows no bounds. |
I just think you do not want to listen to see!
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believer
Guest Group
Joined: 08 January 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1397
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Posted: 26 July 2008 at 6:37am |
This is the question I asked about Isa!
Why do Arabs call Jesus Isa? We get Jesus from the Greek which is still incorrect- why change a person's name to fit your language? A name should stay the same in any language, but where does Isa come from?!?.
Yeshua is considered to be Mighty GOD by many Christians.
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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believer
Guest Group
Joined: 08 January 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1397
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Posted: 26 July 2008 at 6:43am |
What is really neat though is that Yeshua means salvation - Yeshua is mentioned all over the Old Testament
Please read the following-
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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minuteman
Senior Member
Joined: 25 March 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 1642
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Posted: 26 July 2008 at 11:09pm |
believer wrote:
This is the question I asked about Isa!
Why do Arabs call Jesus Isa? We get Jesus from the Greek which is still incorrect- why change a person's name to fit your language? A name should stay the same in any language, but where does Isa come from?!?.
Yeshua is considered to be Mighty GOD by many Christians. |
Believer, perhaps that was a very good reason for changing from Yeshua to Isa. Because Yeshua was the Mighty God. Islam does not believe in any other God except One. You were trying to have another beside Him being called Yeshua. Surely your father God was not called Yeshua. But the other son God was being called Yeshua. That also being the Mighty One.
So in order to avoid that complication, Allah gave us the name of that prophet as Isa. If you can call him Jesus, why we cannot call him Isa? You made alteration in his name and it is all over the place as Jesus.
We have the name Isa which does not mean a god. That should suit you too because you also believe in One God only. So you can have your father God, the one only, and leave his offspring (Yeshua) alone please.
Edited by minuteman - 27 July 2008 at 6:30pm
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believer
Guest Group
Joined: 08 January 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1397
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Posted: 27 July 2008 at 7:29am |
minuteman - I think I have confused you.
The word yeshua means salvation.
GOD's Word was made flesh by YHWH and named Yeshua.
What do Arab Christians call Jesus?
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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robin
Senior Member
Joined: 17 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 595
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Posted: 27 July 2008 at 11:15pm |
believer wrote:
minuteman - I think I have confused you.
The word yeshua means salvation.
GOD's Word was made flesh by YHWH and named Yeshua.
What do Arab Christians call Jesus? |
�Yahweh is an English rendition of יהוה, the Name of God as found in the consonantal Hebrew text. These four Hebrew letters (יהוה), known as the Tetragrammaton, are transliterated JHWH in German, and YHWH, YHVH, JHWH and JHVH in English.�-from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
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Andalus
Moderator Group
Joined: 12 October 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1187
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Posted: 28 July 2008 at 5:36pm |
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
Andalus wrote:
robin wrote:
minuteman wrote:
Dear Hasan, even though the church has altered the words of the original Jewish book, it still does not prove anything for Jesus. Please see:
Isaiah 9:6
For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus was never called wonderful. He never counselled (took opinion, Mushawarat) He was never mighty God, eternal father (he was not a father as they say he did not marry) He Jesus was not a prince of peace. He could not bring any peace in his own time.
This verse does not apply to Jesus. But checked carefully, it applies to our prophet Muhammad in all respects. I will post the details soon. It was our prophet who was told to take opinion. It is written in the Quran "Their (Muslims) matters are decided by mutual consultation". The prince of peace also applies to our prophet. The religion that he brought is called Peace (Islam).
Please note that there should be a comma between "Wonderful" and "Counseler". This is a trick of the church to omit the comma. |
As Muhammad is not worshiper of Jehovah God, the God of Moses, who brings this about, it does not apply to him:-
Isaiah 9:7
"The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this." |
1) There is no such name "Jehova", so in actuallity, Moses did not worship "Jehova" either.
2) You "assert" Prophet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. Please back up your "assertion". |
Exo 3:15 And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My title from generation to generation.
Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Pslam 83
16 Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek Your name, O Jehovah.
17 Let them be ashamed and troubled forever; yea, let them be put to shame, and lost;
18 so that men may know that Your name is JEHOVAH, that You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Eze 38:23 So I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself. And I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am Jehovah.
God�s name, Jehovah, appears nearly 7,000 times in ancient Bible manuscripts.
Moses did worship Jehovah; Muhammed did not! I stand by my post! |
You are not quoting the actual "bible", there is no "J" in the Hebrew TANACH. Acccording to the Hebrew, there is no "Jehova", hence you are not worshipping the God of Moses, and Moses did not worship any God named "Jehova". Your almost "cult like" group tries to use the name game as a gimmick, but be aware, you will not find "Jehova" in the Tenakh. Solid scholarship, not gimmicks, is what will reveal the validity of a group.
Finally, you have not provided any argument that Porphet Muhammad (saw) did not worship the same God as Moses. If you are going to assert such strong opinions, we ask that you show what you bases is. Making bold claims and stating them as fact is not only juvenile, but no productive, and for the spirit of the forum, you are asked to provide more than just bold claims. |
The following are various Jewish Bible translations which all use the divine name in its Hebrew form amongst the English text at Exodus 6:3, they read as follows:-
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty but by My name vuvh I made Me not known to them" ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic text A New Translation The Jewish Publications Society of America.
"I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make myself known to them by My name vuvh. " ftn. This divine name is traditionally not pronounced; instead, Adonai, "(the) LORD," is regularly."-'TANAKH The Holy Scriptures' The New JPS Translation According to the Traditional Hebrew Text The Jewish Publications Society Philadelphia, New York, Jerusalem.
"and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name vuvh I made Me Not known to them." ftn. The ineffable name, read Adonai, which means, the Lord."-The Soncino Chumash. The Five Books of Moses with Haphtaroth.
some other rendering of the same verse from various English translations:-
"I was seen by Avraham, by Yitzhak, and by Yaakov as God Shaddai, but (by) my name YHWH I was not known to them."-The Five Books of Moses by Everatt Fox
"And I appeared vnto Abraham, vnto Isaac, and vuto Iacob, by the Name of God Almighty, but by my name IEHOVAH was I not knowen to them."-K.J.V. 1611 Edition
"And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them."-New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures
"the Almighty God who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob-though I did not revel my name, Jehovah, to them."-THE WAY The Catholic Living Bible
"To Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob I appeared as El Shaddai, but I did not make my name Yahweh known to them."-The New Jerusalem Bible
Spanish Bible: Ex 6:1-3:
"JEHOVA respondi� � Mois�s: Ahora ver�s lo que yo har� � Fara�n; porque con mano fuerte los ha de dejar ir; y con mano fuerte los ha de echar de su tierra. Habl� todav�a Dios � Mois�s, y d�jole: Yo soy JEHOVA;Y aparec� � Abraham, � Isaac y � Jacob bajo el nombre de Dios Omnipotente, mas en mi nombre JEHOVA no me notifiqu� � ellos."-'LA SANTA BIBLIA' by Reina-Valera, 1909
In the above texts is the name of Almighty God "Jehovah" as translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, vuvh, YHWH which is a different word form than that of "LORD" (Heb. hbst) as in the Holy and inspired Scriptures that where penned to bring praise and Worshipers to Him, Almighty God!
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There is no single verse that contains the name "Jehova". Nothing you pasted above disagrees with me. The term "Jehova" is a 13th century Christian mistake. The Hebrew tetragrammaton "YHWH" does not translate to "Jehova". Jesus, nor Moses ever spoke that name. |
Yes if does, in Latin from which the English language is derived from; that is why Jesus is called Jesus insted of the Hebrew form "Yesuaha!"
Albert Barns notes on the Bible:-
Exo_6:2
I am the Lord ... - The meaning seems to be this: "I am Jehovah (Yahweh), and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but as to my name Jehovah, I was not made known to them." In other words, the full import of that name was not disclosed to them. See Exo_3:14.
GO TO:-
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I am guessing you did not actually read the link you provided, as it clearly states that "Jehova" is based upon early Christian ignorance and not on any clear rules of translation.
The verse Ex 3:14 further supports my initial statement, as the place where you erroneously place "Jehova", is actually the teragrammaton, which is simply YHWH, whch is the actual "translation" representing Hebrew letters. The fact that God did not reveal His unspoken name does not, in any way, even remotely imply that your sect "really" knows this name, which is nothing more than a mistranslation based upon befuddled scholarship. So once again, you have not shown what I have stated to be wrong, and once again, you provide "evidence" which actually supports what I am saying.
Your statement that English is derived from Latin, and Latin is Jehova for the tetragrammaton, so therefore Jehova is the sacred name is pure rubbish.
1) That Latin is the foundation for English: Non sequitur (meaning "does not follow regarding you attempt to conclude the Jehova is the sacred name.) Even if we accept what you say as true, that English is completely founded upon Latin, this still makes no difference and your conclusion does not follow, not because it is Latin, but because the term is based upon bad scholarship, and it in no way has anything to do wtih the tetragrammaton, which is represented by four Hebrew letters.
2) Jehova cannot be the "sacred name", because no where in the bible does God reveal it. In every place that the tetragrammaton exists, one will find Adonai, or "Elohim". Hence, there is no Latin word for the Hebrew name of God.
3) Moses did not speak Latin, nor did Jesus.
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That is a history of the NAME from the Bible. It's continued usage and existance shows that NAME has the belssing of Allah to be published world wide and to this point in time nothing has been able to stop it even in all Arabic lands!
As the Bible points out:-
Micah 4:5
For all the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever.
Malachi 3:17-18
"And they will certainly become mine," Jehovah of armies has said, "at the day when I am producing a special property. And I will show compassion upon them, just as a man shows compassion upon his son who is serving him. 18 And YOU people will again certainly see [the distinction] between a righteous one and a wicked one, between one serving God and one who has not served him."
You do not see because you do not want to see! |
You do not make sense because you have so easily given your mind away.
You could not even reply to my points. How can I, or anyone take you seriously?
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The suggested pornunciation of Jehovah in Hebrew is "Yahweh", from "YHWH" which is in the Bible thousands of times!!!
JEHOVAH in The king James Version of the Bible or Authorized Version.
Ex 6:3
Ps 83:18
Isa 12:2; 26:4.
"J":-
Hebrew = "Y" into Greek and Latin as "I" translated into English as "J"
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Christian audacity. The suggested pronounciation of Jehova in Hebrew? Are you really this obtuse? Your fear of God is so small that you have the nerve to suggest that the mistaken "latin" translation is the actual bases, and the Hebrew the "suggested pronounciation"? You are trying to hard to befuddle the topic in order to save your confounded theolological mess. The is a "suggested" pronounciation of YHWH, though no is actually sure since NO ONE EVER PRONOUNCED IT, and the word Jehova is a latin mistranslation (a mistake) that has nothing in common with the Hebrew word. Your audacity knows no bounds. |
I just think you do not want to listen to see! |
Nice. Another of your absolute deflections from a point given to you. You are working on your second warning. If you continue to shrug off any resonsibility to properly respond to points given to you, and continue to just repeat yourself, you will find yourself in a second warning. If you make claims, you are expected to respond to replies, beyond just copy and pastes, and simple "one liners"...."you just do not understand"..."you just do not want to see'.
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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/
http://www.pt-go.com/
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PROPHECIES IN THE BIBLE