FMG

I think its not wise for me to respond to either defend or accuse a Muslim scholar in discussions. Yes, we can critize his decisions through logical arguments but its totally a different thing if we starting calling names to him. On the more, the topic of this thread happens to be "FGM" and not cursing a scholar. Hope this distinction must be kept while postings.

Specifically responding to bro begbie, I couldn't understand your response when you say: "Yes it is". Kindly elaborate.

AhmadJoyia wrote: However, one thing may be realized that in a cultural traditions (not Islamic) of FGC (not FGM), it is the women who insists on continuing their cultural traditons more than their men. Hence, within the cultral tradition, this act is not considered un-human or abhorrent of any kind. Yes it is. All you are doing is providing the apologetics to allow it to continue under the guise of religion.

Secondly, I think you got me wrong from the day one on this thread, this is why you say

AhmadJoyia wrote: However, now this cultrual tradition has taken the umbrella of religion, where religion is not the source but an excuse of continuity.  And now you contradict yourself. You are now saying the practice DOES have religious (read islamic) connotations.

I hope people on this forum would use their own wisdom to understand as what my position was and is, on this topic. Indeed Allah knows the best.

 

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

regarding labaling female circumcision as FGM, this is ignorance on the part of all those involved as not one of them could even describe the procedure or what was harmfull and why it is mutilation.

mutilation.

websters dictionary;

1 : to cut up or alter radically so as to make imperfect <the child mutilated the book with his scissors>
2 : to cut off or permanently destroy a limb or essential part of :

Dictionary.com

1:To deprive of a limb or an essential part; cripple.
2:To disfigure by damaging irreparably: mutilate a statue.
3:To make imperfect by excising or altering parts.

female circumcision is non of the above, like male circumcision it is a medical procedure.

Regarding the shafii madhhab Imam shafii himself held the opinion that the evidence for male circumcision  also  aplied to females which is why he considered it wajib.

In islam if  a thing is harmfull to the person it becomes haram for them this is an Usul principle of law. Islamic law is based on principles derived from the Quran, sunnah, shaba and tabiin. This why many people today do not understand many rulings in Islam they only look for literal evidence in the Quran and sunnah. "if it wasnt mentioned specificly then it is not right" this is a completely false understanding if it was the truth the Islam would not be for all time.

Another Usul principle taken directly from the prophets example is "Al Ada wal Urf" meaning the cutoms of a people is legislatively considered. This means that if there is nothing in Islam prohibiting the customs of a particular people then it is permisable for them to continue the practice.

regarding female circumcision, asuming Urf is why a people practice this you would have to show the harm in it for it to be made haram.

Many shafii scholars have nowday said it shouldnt be practiced becouse the number of people who know how to do this properly is decreasing and there is a real chance that mutilation could result, ie harm has been established. This isnt the same as saying the act it self is haram! and reason for trying to stop it all together. Many people do have access to medical profesionals and people who do know how to perform it properly.

FGM occurs in some tribes in africa, this is the act that most westerners are trying to abolish dont confuse this with female circumcision the two are not the same. They perform actual mutilation as a cultural practice, meaning they do this with intent it doesnt come about by accident.



Edited by rami