Islam and Hinduism

bharatiya wrote: Hello Ahmad!!! For time being lets forget about the concept of Brahman.  Its a very difficult concept to explain and I was not able to explain it correctly.  Thats why you were saying that we are finite.  Its just like a loop.  We have to look inwards. I would post a whole post only on Brahman.  I would try to explain in the best way I can.

I think, whole premise of my postings was based on this concept of "infinite" Brahman. However, I shall appreciate your post on the concept of Brahman from your perspective as well.

.......  But I think you hold prejudices against Jews and 'hindus'(this may be one of the reasons you find it difficult to understand 'hinduism').

No, I don't think you can call it "prejudices" against 'hindus' at all especially once we are having frank discussions without any baisness attached to it. However, I , like any non hindu, may have problems in understanding hinduism in this short period of time, especially once the very concept of "infinite" Brahman is not easy to comprehend from your stand point of view. All the time I was comparing the concept of "infinite" God that I have in my mind to what "infinite" Brahman philosophy I found on the website you referred to me. However, once you say there is more to it, then ofcourse, I have nothing more to say except let you present what you have to say about it.

I would like to first know the authenticity of Quran.  How can you say that Mohammad is the Prophet sent by God?  Dont say that it is written in Quran.  What is the proof that Quran is the word of God? Someone said it so we are following, is a lame excuse.  Isn't it? The thing is, it is the matter of faith or belief, not a matter of fact.  Right? Now the moderators may blast me, but these are similar to the questions I encounter. If you can answer my questions, then I will be most pleased.   Only good people understand it is a lame answer.

I see this type of your questions throughout your current posting. So I shall try to respond to it right now, in the begining, rather than delaying it to later part in your response; and over there I shall just refer you to this place where I am planning to respond it now. 

I am not offended at all with your question. This is the most logical question that I asked myself in the very begining of my quest for the search of truth. In this quest, I made some presumptions, and you may argue about them, but for me, to start with, these are where I would say that my personal liking or disliking or similar influences might affect. I presumed the existance of some supreme deity. All powerfull and ever lasting and of course infinite in its capacity etc. Meaning thereby, I am not a athiest by my innerself. With this background, I prayed to this deity, whatever you call Him, to show me the truth, the truth which should be of my understanding and the truth to my logical deduction. With this prayer, I earnestly (to my own innerself) started reading and learning about other religions (and I am still in it). In the meanwhile, I also was fully involved in my scientific professional knowledge enhancement studies (Graduate studies in the field of engineering). My sceintific studies taught me to rely only on that info that is backed by proper references (relating to the original sources). It is this teaching that helped me alot in avoiding many heresies that anyone could come across in such a quest for truth. I may not like to reveal all those relegions by name that I read about, as I don't want to let others of that faith feel offended, but certainly hinduism wasn't in them. Obviously, I have already told you my ignorance about this aspect of hinduism, so naturally it wasn't on my priority list. During this study, I came across the same question that you have pointed out. How do anyone should believe on Mohammad that he was the prophet and messanger from the absolute infinite diety. Similarly, the claims of other people with regard to other relegions that I came across. My foremost tool for analysis of any faith related study remained the proper references which these relegions provide for their claims. Not the circular references that you have already pointed out but the absolute references. I found out, during this study, that there is no way that any physical being (scientifically defined physical being that has a 'mass' and occupies 'space' and governed by 'time') can come across an infinite being who is beyond these dimensions. Then how should I expect guidance for my quest? Then my quest itself is a useless and futile exercise. It is in this regard that I realised that I must have to base my trust onto someone who is trust worthy, who can show me and guide me about that infinite diety and I should rest assure for the rest of my life that I am not being cheated upon. But then, that human being may also be in the confines of this physical world. As I said, through my initial presumption, that I prayed to that unseen deity to show me the right path, therefore, in my humble and most earnest but yet through logical approach to my understanding (and not through any complicated philosophy for which in the end I had to say that I am not very clear), I expected to find that path. I see people laughing at me during my conversations with them, mostly calling me atheist and some even called me to be too simplistic about my approach. However, from the inner core of my heart, I never got dishearted from their remarks or attitude simply because I had put my all trust to that absolute diety who I presumed to exist (On the contrary, if that diety doesn't exit even then atleast I am not losing any thing in any way. Isn't it?). It is in this quest through open mind (yet fully convinced to submit to infinite diety), that I came across Mohammad through proper references. The idea of human messanger of God (the infinite diety) was not new in his case and nor in any other two monotheistic relegions. Nor it was opposed by any other human intellects other than atheists. So, now the question came how or why did I believe him more than any others. That means, I have already accepted an element of uncertainity based upon the truthfullness or untruthfullness of another human being but what remained to answer was how much uncertainity as compared with other relegion? However, a simple comparative religion study can clearly answer this question without much ado. Foremost being the original message, preserved in original form and in orginal language from my 'inifinte diety' to whom I now call Allah, made my choice much easier than I thought. I always say Alhamdollilha (thanks to my Allah) who has shown me the right path not only for this life but for the eternal life hereafter. Simiply put to your question, yes, there is certain element of uncertainity attached to my decision, however, to my knowledge till this time, it is far less than the one you could find with any other faith based relegion. By believeing in Prophet Mohammad, I am simply relying on one person's testimony, however, what you are trying to present is that one has to rely on complete chain (that too unbroken) of ancestrol traditions to reach to the concepts that you have suggested. Its not difficult to imagine the huge element of uncertainity attached to this methodology to put faith. Especially with anonymous origin and possibly with many numerous broken chains of traditions, I would always remain skeptical if we would ever recover the lost messages of the infinite absolute. On the other hand Quran is the true word (by beliving in Prophet Mohammad) of Allah and Prophet Mohammad was his last messanger on earth. After this trust is put in, rest every phyical phenomenon attached to the faith can be understood without any further hypothesis or theories, since then Quran would speak all for its own self. For our rituals or even for our day to day life issues, the perfect example of life of prophet Mohammad provides us the guidance. By believing in him, I found myself even closer to other prophets like Moses and Jesus than the claimants of these relegions. There is no "back door" opening for any further divine revelations that could change or annul the last word of God.

Now coming to the last part of your question that how can I validate that Quran is the true word of God. Not that I believe in prophet Mohammad that I would blindly accept whatever is purported to be said by him. Though I may not be able to prove it directly, however circumstanial evidence does show its authenticity beyond my human baisness to believe it. Anyone can easily find this evidence by different circumstanial tests that can be applied to it to prove or disprove its authenticity. These tests are not new. Right from its day of first revelation till this time, there have been numourous tests under which it went through and is still being passed, not only by individuals like me but through very organised intellecutals of all fields. It is this kind of absoluteness that I would expect 'word' of God (the infinite one) to posses and hence increases my faith more than ever. The element of 'uncertainity' that I talked about diffinitely starts to decrease the more I read it. I think that is it all that I can say at this time about my faith and belief on Prophet Mohammad and the Quran. Continuing to your rest of the passage, I shall quickly go through it, only remarking where I would feel there is a need to it. However, I still need your help for making me understand your concept about absolute Brahman as you promised it.

 

 

 

   

 

....  We don't have the a concept like a 'judgement day'.  We have a concept of Pralaya.  But then God or anyone do not judge us.  Pralaya is a different concept.

Definitely love to hear more about this concept of Pralaya.

For us Brahman does not take care of our deeds(I will explain it later).  It is the work of Karma(Law of Causality).

But then who enacted this law of Karma other than Brahman? Where would our deeds, our efforts to behave good or bad goes? You said its effects are reflected on individual's life in other dimensions of the same world but in this regard the world should have been much polarized than the one we experience at any instant of time? Isn't it?

I would try to explain about why Prophets descend.  If you can understand the concept of Brahman, it will be easy to understand everything else.

Looking forward to this as well.

I cannot buy this idea.  There is a purpose for everything.  How could a perfect being create an unperfect world? Considering this, I find the concept of Brahman more subtle.

Well, I didn't present the philosophy of reasons here instead as How He (Allah) does it. BTW why do you call this to be unperfect world? Because of various calamities taking place or because of human atrocities or for what? May be I can throw some light on it from my perspective.

Damn right.  But you are negating what you said by this sentence "I beleive in reality and facts define my life, there is very little room for conjectures so we always try to avoid conjectures that are based on absolutely no knowledge other than human extrapolational philosophies.

I think I negate anything. Kindly let me know if you have come across anything especially after my response above especially with regard to "The element of uncertainty" that I talked about.

I too believe in reality and facts.  When I was a little boy, I was an agnostic.  Then in my teens I was a perfect atheist.  I never believed in the existence of God or any higher being whatsoever.  I was as far away to 'hinduism' as I was to Islam or Christianity.  I seldom go to a temple.  And even if I happen to go, I go for peace.

Word "salam" literally means peace and "Islam" may also be regarded as a derived term from this word. Had you been visiting to Mosques than the temples, I can guess your views would have been different.

But then, I started intropection.  I found out the facts(not the scientific facts kind of things, because science is filled with assumptions and opinions).

I am not sure that I agree with you over here regarding the scientific facts here. Science is any knowledge (or facts) that is observable, measureable and then repeatable. Other than that I don't know which facts (assumptions and opinions) are you talking about?

 

I found out that the difference between me and others is just appearance.  But deep down we are all one.  I have done that through meditation. ......

This could also be shown through my definition of science as well as through my faith (Islam). One don't have to go into deep meditation to bring out this knowledge which is totally based upon your own testimony (which I suppose, has nothing to do with kind of science that the modern world knows of).

 

It suits me the best.  Its best for my psyche.

Good for you brother. Keep it up. However, may have to think more logically in retrospection than merely introspection.

Can I ask you one question?(please don't be offended). You don't definitely know that Prophet was contacted by Allah.  You base this 'fact' on Quran.  And you definitely cannot prove that Quran is the work of God(or Allah).  Quran, for that matter, any other Scripture exists only as a book.  You believe Quran because you believe Quran.  But its for us to discover everything.  Isn't it?  People see a thing the way they want to see it.  Cogito ergo sum.  [/unquote]  I have already provided the answer above. Regarding discovering everything by ourselves require sound methodology based on common definition of science (observable, measureable and repeatable) and not yours. [quoe] This is what 'hinduism' is.  Discovering everything ourselves.

 Ofcourse yes, but not rediscovering hinduism by reframing (through meditational amendments etc) it all by yourself.

All the ills in 'hinduism' are superficial.

This is kind of a sweeping statement. Isn't it? "Ills" is a relative term depending upon whom you ask to.

Thats what I say, if you understand Brahman, it will be easy to understand why we call Brahma creator.  For the time being, assume that Brahman created Brahma with special powers to create everything.(though its just an allusion, I will explain it afterwards)

Yap!, I am ready to assume what ever you say, but sooner or later need to come back to understand beyond this assumption.

Because as I have said, it is not easy to discover ourselves or God.

Oh, but I think, you just said we should discover everything all by ourselves. Here is your own quote [quoe] This is what 'hinduism' is.  Discovering everything ourselves. [/quote]

 

"We consider him as Guru(preceptor) who guides us."

Why are you in need of a preceptor here that too through meditational ways? Is it in your vedas etc or based on ancestoral traditons?

To be frank, the difference I find among the Prophet, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha etc. is nothing.  You may say that the Prophet was sent by Allah.  What is the proof?  Its the matter of faith, its not the matter of fact.  Right? You will now blast me saying that, I am blah blah blah.

Though I have already answered this question above, however, this reply of yours doesn't seem to answer my question with regard to Brahma and not regard to Kirshna etc. Here it is pasted again,

"So how could a "finite" being know about "infinite" more than any other "finite" beings that too, on such a large order of magnitude that finite being becomes the worthy of human worship?"

And the only difference I find between Krishna and me is higher level of energy in Krishna(you definitely cannot understand this).  He can do miracles.  But I need time to get to that level.

I can wait as long as you want me to wait, however, my question was specifically with regard to difference between Brahman and Brahma and not Kirshna.

You may ask 'what is this higher level of energy?', well I cannot bear when I am burried alive or when I am immolated.  But people with higher levels of energy, can do this.  Swami Vivekananda was buried alive.  It is called Jiva Samadhi.  Its just like Sati.  I definitely cannot imagine doing such a thing.  You may say that this is suicide.  If you say that this is suicide, then I cannot say anything else about it.

I do believe in miracles but only associated with prophets of Allah. Other than that I also believe that magic and jinns also exist in this world and reasoned them to be the source of all these kinds of super-natural activities. However, Islam denounce them to adopt and plainly ask believers to worship Allah and Allah alone as none else is worthy of worship.

The knowledgeable ones are not always born.  I cannot prove this now.

 Who decides who goes where and when? If they are not always born then where do they go? What about the worst ignorants? I mean what is the destination of the extreme opposites of knowldgeables? Do they keep circulating within the human world or what?  

"90% of ignorable population", its offensive.  Did Allah give you the right to say a person 'ka***'? A non-believer is as much a human as we are.  The only difference being we believe.  In future a non-believer will also believe.  So its the matter of time.  And we know that time does not exist for Allah.

My apology. Its a typo. The correct word I should have used is "ignorant" and not "ignorable". I am sorry if you felt that way. I thought we discussed about this aspect of 90% ignorant people prevailing now in hinduism. By no means I intended to humiliate any particular caste or group of people, not even to hindus who are the subject matter under discussion and mentioned them only by way of our mutually agreed upon statistics.

Our ancestors.  I don't know their names.

Big problem for anonymous ancestoral traditions. Got to check for certificate of authenticity before start believing them.

Why should they be examined?  Its like, I write a C program, I myself find the mistakes in it and clear all the bugs and then discard the program.

This is indeed a strange analogy. Whats the motivation to write such a program? And then why to remove the bugs and why not let them remain and why to bother if at all there are bugs in them. who cares? Oh, then after all this hectic program writing and debugging, discard it altogather? This is confusing..

 

One the 99 attributes of Allah is "Al-Munsif", that is all provider of justice. It is with this regard that everything we do here on earth is accountable. Those who are born rich or became rich, are in more trouble as they have to be more accountable for all their wealth and its spendings (need to prserve ones bills to account for the taxes paid).

"  

So you say that one man is born rich and another poor, one man is born healthy and another handicapped only because Allah wants them to be so?"

Remember everything is from Allah and everything must return to Allah. However, everything is responsible for everything that is given to him. Justice shall take care of any apperant advantages seen in this world as explained above.

Actually, angels are ancestors and vice versa.

Probably you need a better word to describe this phenomena especially with my concept about angels. You may get furious instead and rather ask me to correct my term for use of word 'angel', but fact remains you haven't identified them as a seperate entity as yet. So its confusing.

Yes, what we see is the body.  Thats why feel we are finite.  Actually we are infinite beings in finite bodies.

Need evidence to assert this position. Definition of finite and infinite comes from our perception of space and time as explained through the laws of physics etc.

Didn't you hear about Lance Armstrong?  He had cancer, yet he is the fastest cyclist.  Didn't you hear about magicians like David Copperfield and David Blaine?  What about Edison, Einstien etc.  Its all in what we believe dear.  If we believe we can do anything, we can do anything.  You may say that this is the work of Allah.  Remember, whatever you say is right for you. Everything is possible.

But yet they don't claim infinity nor anyone else call them such. Isn't it? Everything is possible doesn't logically imply infinity.

Dr. Hineman is the one who did extensive work in Parapsychology.

Not a sufficient quality to assert anything about life after death. He needs to taste death before he could be considered to have any relevant personal experience in this field of life after death.

I don't consider him a prophet.  But as I have already said, no difference between anyone.

Difference comes from the methodology one applies to obtain that knowlegdge. Same question of authenticity etc. Also, I have not excluded the possiblity of other creatures on this earth other than humans, animals etc (that we encounter them in our daily lives) as I have explained earlier in my current post, but then I don't put my faith in such a mysterious source of info.

 

First of all, by angel I mean a good soul And I say he is our ancestor because from him some other ancestors are born.

It looks like that you have an excellant grammer, atleast better than me. Then why would you use tense like "are born" and not "were born"? Is there any clue here that I am missing?

We ourselves.  Consider them just like Mother Teresa etc.

Couldn't find any more confusing answer than this.

I have already proved by saying about Krishna, Valmiki etc.  Consider Karna, he was raised by a chariot rider but made was King by his friend Duryodhana.  Though Karna is a cousin of Duryodhana, no one knows about it when he is given the throne(even Karna himself doesn't know it).  Well, there are so many other examples.

Of course by now you would be able to distinguish between mythical stories and historical events. Are all these stories that you quote  part of your vedas or what? What is the source?

I rightly said around 3000 years.  The 'exploitation' did not start the day when the Kali Yuga started.  As you can see, the firt opposition over the exploitation came from Buddha who lived around 500 BC.  And the opposition came from a Kshatriya who is consider higher 'caste'.

You mean to say Buddha practiced hinduism before he brought his doctrine? Secondly, use of words like "higher caste" doesn't suit well with your own understanding of your scriptures. Why would you describe kshatriya as a 'higher' caste?  Even so, then what happened? Do you intend to say the Brahmin still won in their endevour to subjugate the masses under their influence against their will? In this case question remains as how they did it? Untill or unless these Brahmins didn't bring some changes to their scriptures, and you also seem to corroborate on the same language as they intended to let people speak, they instituted the amendments by rewriting the scriptures with the doctrine of caste system. Other than this, I don't feel at ease as how they still prevailed over the rest of the hindu masses against their own will. Its these scriptural amendments that quenched the resistances of the masses to accept their fate as a divine wrath or whatever you call it, and don't resist.   

Lets keep the movies aside.

 

Of course. But you just quoted me to another movie (3 parts)...Whats its name... I don't recall exactly. Anyhow no need to go further on it..

They are Itihasas(history) and cannot be changed.

Need to differentiate between authentic history and the mythical history.

I am curious to know where did you see that movie.  Are you Indian?

Well, I am not a Indian, otherwise I should have known about hinduism much earlier than I am now coming across. These movies are quite common everywhere now a days even in this part of the world as well, and much for entertainment than for any other purpose. But as I said, they projected a negative image, at least to me, with regard to polytheistic beliefs in hinduism.

We take many births until we get perfection.  This aspect is clearly explained in the website i referred.  Just go thru(if you want).

So what is the ultimate destination or fate (if you say discard the program). Also what happens to the group of other extreme when they get perfect imperfection? Where would they land or they keep circulating into the loop.

Yes, but how much of Truth? we muslims don't know of it.

Why do you consider yourself to be finite?

Because that is observable, measureable, and repeatable. I don't know how would you assert the opposite of this?

Helping us to know the Truth.

So would that logically imply that all helpers would be worthy of worship? It is this place that we keep the absolute for all our praises and worships. All others helpers or whatever you can call them do not come into our worship at all.

 

Who said people negate their scriptures?

I refered to the exploitation of Brahmins towards other castes. Wasn't it a negation of their own scriptures? Similarly, any amendment proposals contrary to the sciptures.

Direct quote from the "absolute".LOL.  I am now convinced that the concept of Allah is different from Brahman.

Why? whats so funny? Really whats so strange in it. Wouldn't you expect the absolute, the ultimate God to have any regard towards His creation? At least I would. That is why I submitted to Islam. Quran is the true word of God. He speaks to us in this book. Is there any book equal to it. No, certainly not. Yet its just a book, we don't worship the book and only try to adhere to it what it asks us to do to recognise Allah obey.

But one question, is it real that Allah said or wrote Quran?  Or do you believe Allah did it?  Can you prove your point?

I have just answered this question.

Its an actual incident my friend.  It is not written in Vedas.  It is Itihasa(history). ...

Its not in Vedas??? Oh, then what is the source of this metaphorical history? I mean, do you really call it human history where these kind of events happen here on this world? Probably I need to find this child to have the address of the angel of death other than presuming he would not refer me to a suesidal trip. With this definition, kindly excuse me for being rude, but I can't help being critical about your source of information. All this long you have been quoting me this kind of history???? I am totally confused. Kindly help me differenntiate between human history and angelic or metaphorical history through your own language. So you said its Itihasa (history), then what is human history (observed or could be observed by people other than the objects in the story of the history). Hmmm.. Needs more to digest than I imagined, nevertheless, hopefully it would all be easy and smooth in the end. With this I end here hoping that you would reply on my previous as well as this posting togather or in a same sequence. That I leave it up to you. Regards

 

 

Peace and Love

[/QUOTE]

Dear Bro Bharatiya,

Your questions are most welcome, however, due to my own personal committments, I would take some time to respond to your questions. As for now, you can surf this forum especially the areas of basics of Islam, and hopefully you may get a lot of info. In the meantime I also expect my other brothers and sisters to help me in responding to your above mentioned questions. I also intend to introduce to you some of the literature concerning Quran and one such source of a good info is at http://www.sunnipath.com/Resources/PrintMedia/Books/B0039P00 00.aspx

where you can have some basic understanding about Quran. May Allah guide us all to the path of truth. Amen.

 

Hello Friends!!!

Its waste of talking about Hinduism, without considering the core of it.  The core of Hinduism is the concept of the Absolute, Brahman. 
I am posting this post for those who want to understand Hinduism.

Brahman is one of the most important concepts in Hinduism, signifying ultimate reality. Brahman is absolute, eternal ineffable and impersonal. Literally, the term means "the ever growing."

It is also identified with atman, and so is frequently referred to as Brahman-Atman - the soul of the entire universe. Frequently, all Hindu gods are assimilated into Brahman-Atman and regarded simply as personal manifestations of an impersonal force.

Within the Brahman Hindus have identified a sort of "trinity" of forces or aspects: Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu. Brahma is the creative force, Shiva is the destructive force and Vishnu is the protective force.

The Concept of Brahman

Let us look at what Hinduism holds to be the Absolute. The ultimate goal and Absolute of Hinduism is termed "Brahman" in Sanskrit. The word comes from the Sanskrit verb root brh, meaning "to grow". Etymologically, the term means "that which grows" (brhati) and "which causes to grow" (brhmayati).

Brahman is not "God"
Brahman, as understood by the scriptures of Hinduism, as well as by the 'acharyas'(preceptors) of the Vedanta school, is a very specific conception of the Absolute. This unique conception has not been replicated by any other religion on earth, and is exclusive to Hinduism. Thus to even call this conception of Brahman "God" is, in a sense, somewhat imprecise. This is the case because Brahman does not refer to the anthropomorphic concept of God of the Abrahamic religions. When we speak of Brahman, we are referring neither to the "old man in the sky" concept, nor to the idea of the Absolute as even capable of being vengeful, fearful or engaging in choosing a favorite people from among His creatures. For that matter, Brahman is not a "He" at all, but rather transcends all empirically discernable categories, limitations and dualities.

What is Brahman?
In the 'Taittariya Upanishad' II.1, Brahman is described in the following manner: "satyam jnanam anantam brahman", "Brahman is of the nature of truth, knowledge and infinity." Infinite positive qualities and states have their existence secured solely by virtue of Brahman's very reality. Brahman is a necessary reality, eternal (i.e., beyond the purview of temporality), fully independent, non-contingent, and the source and ground of all things. Brahman is both immanently present in the realm of materiality, interpenetrating the whole of reality as the sustaining essence that gives it structure, meaning and existential being, yet Brahman is simultaneously the transcendent origin of all things (thus, panentheistic).

The Nature of Brahman
As the primary causal substance of material reality (jagatkarana), Brahman does not arbitrarily will the coming into being of the non-Brahman metaphysical principles of matter and jivas (individuated consciousness), but rather they are manifest into being as a natural result of the overflowing of Brahman's grandeur, beauty, bliss and love. Brahman cannot but create abundant good in a similar manner to how Brahman cannot but exist. Both existence and overflowing abundance are as much necessary properties of Brahman as love and nurturing are necessary qualities of any virtuous and loving mother.

Brahman is the Source
One can say that Brahman Itself (Him/Herself) constitutes the essential building material of all reality, being the antecedent primeval ontological substance from whence all things proceed. There is no ex nihilo creation in Hinduism. Brahman does not create from nothing, but from the reality of Its own being. Thus Brahman is, in Aristotelian terms, both the Material Cause as well as the Efficient Cause of creation.

The Final Goal & the Final Cause
As the source of Dharma, the metaphysical ordering principles inherent in the design of the cosmos, Brahman can be viewed as the Formal Cause. And as the final goal of all reality, Brahman is also the Final Cause. Being the ontological source of all reality, Brahman is the only substantial real that truly exists, all other metaphysical categories being either a) contingent transformations of Brahman, having their very being subsisting in attributive dependence upon Brahman, or else b) illusory in nature. These views about the nature of Brahman are in general keeping with the theological teachings of both the Advaita and the Vishishta-Advaita schools of Hinduism.

Brahman is the Ultimate Reality
All reality has its source in Brahman. All reality has its grounding sustenance in Brahman. It is in Brahman that all reality has its ultimate repose. Hinduism, specifically, is consciously and exclusively aiming toward this reality termed Brahman.

Thus, Brahman is the signifying name given to the concept of the unchanging, infinite, immanent and transcendent reality that is the Divine Ground of all being.

Let me quote one of our Upanishads,

"Om. That supreme Brahman is infinite, and this conditioned Brahman is infinite. The infinite proceeds from infinite. Then through knowledge, realizing the infinitude of the infinite, it remains as infinite alone." --- Mandukya Upanishad

This is a very beautiful verse.  It contains everything.  Its very complex yet very simple.

Another verse from one of our Vedas,

Edited by bharatiya

Salam To: Bharatiya

I would like to chip in and provide some explanation to point 3 of yours. Hope this will open more doors of understanding between us.

3. What is our position with respect to Allah?

• Islam is monotheistic. The overwhelming message of Islam is that there is one and only one god, that this god is single and unified (tawhid). This thesis is represented in the first half of the Muslim testament of faith: "there is no god but god." The primary duty of humanity is to remember that there is only one god in all one's thoughts, words, and actions; this remembrance, which is the cornerstone of Islam, is called dhikr. Islam, however, does not reject other religions. Fundamental to the Islamic message is that all religions are based on the singularity and unity of God; some religions, however, have fallen away from this message (such as Christianity which divides God into Father and Son), but the essential message of all religions is this unity of God.

 

• Islam is creationist. The universe in Islam is a creation of God and is separate from God. The relationship of the world (including humanity) to God is the relationship between created and creator. While God is not present in the world (immanentalism), still the world reflects the nature and guidance of God.

 

• Islam is transcendentalist. Although God created the universe, God is still absolutely separate from creation�to postulate that God was part of the changeable world would be to contradict the unity, singularity, and unchangeableness of God. Transcendentalism, however, postulates more than just an absolute separation. It also describes a relationship between the creator god and creation. In a transcendental relationship, the transcendent term (God) is absolutely independent of the non-transcendent term (creation); however, the non-transcendent term (creation) only has existence, meaning, or value in relationship to the transcendent term (God). To say that God is transcendent in Islam is to say that God is separate, distinct, and independent from the created universe, but that the created universe, though entirely separate from God, is nonetheless dependent on God for its existence and value.

Hopefully I will elaborate more on the concept of 'Tawhid'. This Arabic word 'Tawhid' is difficult to translate in English because the encompasses all the aspects of 'Davita and Adviata' as well. 

From 'Tawhid's perspective there is 'Unity in diversity' 

Probably you can see now that Islam expounds 'Concrete Monotheism' as compared to ' Absolute Monism' expounded from Vedas and Upanishads.

Regards

Fuhad