God�s commands

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   "Shasta'sAunt: the people did as Moses told them to do...

I am sorry but this is not a good excuse for them. Moses (as) surely didn't want them to be like a good trained animal. I think he had told them "WHY" for sure ... "
Perhaps Moses did tell them that the One and Only God was leading them from bondage, but that doesn't mean that they understood what that meant. They were idolators and pagans. 
Even today there are people who follow certain tenets of Islam without knowing why. Women who cover their hair because everyone does it, etc... There are still many Muslims who are illiterate and cannot read the Quran or Hadith. They are dependant upon others to do so for them and explain what it means. One of my good friends is from Afghanistan and was not allowed to go to school as a girl, therefore she can't read. She does what her husband tells her to do. One time he told her not to let their daughter wax her legs, that when she got married her husband would tell her whether she could wax her legs or not.  So she told her daughter not to wax her legs. She didn't know why, she just thought this was something Islamic. 

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Shasta'sAunt Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930	Post Options Post Reply Quote Shasta'sAunt Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 April 2008 at 1:40am
	"Shasta'sAunt: the people did as Moses told them to do... I am sorry but this is not a good excuse for them. Moses (as) surely didn't want them to be like a good trained animal. I think he had told them "WHY" for sure ... " Perhaps Moses did tell them that the One and Only God was leading them from bondage, but that doesn't mean that they understood what that meant. They were idolators and pagans. Even today there are people who follow certain tenets of Islam without knowing why. Women who cover their hair because everyone does it, etc... There are still many Muslims who are illiterate and cannot read the Quran or Hadith. They are dependant upon others to do so for them and explain what it means. One of my good friends is from Afghanistan and was not allowed to go to school as a girl, therefore she can't read. She does what her husband tells her to do. One time he told her not to let their daughter wax her legs, that when she got married her husband would tell her whether she could wax her legs or not. So she told her daughter not to wax her legs. She didn't know why, she just thought this was something Islamic.
	�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt

myahya Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 222	Post Options Post Reply Quote myahya Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 April 2008 at 2:29am
	Shasta'sAunt: Even today there are people who follow certain tenets of Islam without knowing why. Unfortunately yes, a real problem even in followers or believers. What I am going to say is that I think generally it is not a good excuse for me for instance to say �Ok I didn�t know �why� and I was just doing what people (population) were doing�. On the other hand, in the case of Golden Calf, I have to say that the people did not even do what Moses (as) told them to do. Moses (as) told them to go to Haroon (as) in his absence but they didn't go to Haroon (as) nor did they listen to him. Edited by myahya - 23 April 2008 at 2:31am

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Post Options Post Reply Quote minuteman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 April 2008 at 2:30am
	myahya please note that Ron did not mean "argument" in the post. It was augment. Please see the post below: Ron: �It does not need to be, and must not be, augmented with the Hadith or the Sunnah.� I agree with this sentence. No real Muslim or Momen arguments Quran using Hadith or Sunnah. If you have seen or felt such a manner, it is a perverse manner or a misunderstanding

myahya Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 222	Post Options Post Reply Quote myahya Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 April 2008 at 2:52am
	Many thanks minuteman for the notice. Anyway, as I have told many times. Hadith and Sunnah are needed to avoid being misled, confused, and having incomprehension and misunderstandings. This doesn't mean or prove that Quran is minor and Allah (swt) is not sufficient or needs partner. This is what Allah (swt) wills and has told us in Quran. It is interesting for me that Ron accuses Muslims of taking partner for Allah (swt) if they use Sunnah or Hadith but simultaneously he defends the unity of Jesus (as) and God saying Jesus (as) used to pray to himself. Edited by myahya - 23 April 2008 at 2:53am

Ron Webb Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male atheist Joined: 30 January 2008 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2467	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ron Webb Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 April 2008 at 10:45am
	myahya (or anyone), could you please give me an example where the Hadith and/or Sunnah are needed? I'm trying to understand how Muhammad and the Hadith/Sunnah are needed, and yet you say that Allah and the Quran are sufficient. By the way, just to be clear: I am not defending the unity of Jesus and God in the sense that I believe it. I'm just saying that it is not logically inconsistent.

believer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397	Post Options Post Reply Quote believer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 April 2008 at 8:33pm
	Yes honeto open heart- it allows the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Your mind can be open sure but if your heart is closed you will never know the truth- because you will think you see contradictions that don't really exist.
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

believer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397	Post Options Post Reply Quote believer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 April 2008 at 8:36pm
	I appreciate that Ron.- "I'm just saying that it is not logically inconsistent."
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

myahya Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 222	Post Options Post Reply Quote myahya Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 April 2008 at 1:47am
	Ron: I'm just saying that it is not logically inconsistent. There is logical inconsistency in that case. But, is it logically inconsistent or shirk beside you if a Muslim wants to know: who was the last Prophet, what he said and how he lived (in behavior) and if a Muslim use them in his/her life if they are (logically, historically) reliable not against what is written in Quran? Ron: give me an example where the Hadith and/or Sunnah are needed? Where are they needed? Let me give you the simplest and most apparent example. In Quran there are many times where Allah (swt) commands us to perform praying "Salaat in Arabic" telling us it is a must for a Momen (believer) and it essentially guides the believer. But nowhere is written how to pray. Please reply honestly, if you want to read and act according to Quran, would it be not a question for you: �how to pray�? Was it not a question for Muslims who used to live at the time of prophet? If it was and it is, who would be the first choice for you to go to and learn. The same situation exists for Haj, Zakat, Infagh, Jihad, and so on. Some details are not mentioned. This can be really dangerous if one doesn�t use reliable Hadith and Sunnah and wants to decide only and only based on WHAT he/she understands from reading it or its translation. It doesn�t mean that Quran is not sufficient but our comprehension is limited and can be drastically influenced by what we would like to do (not what Quran actually tells us). Therefore, we need a teacher who is the best example (as Quran says about the prophet) to teach us (as Quran says) the book. It is surprising to me: even when you send your daughter to school to get educated you are actually hiring teacher for her to teach her the books. Why do you not just buy the same books giving them to your daughter to read them herself? Edited by myahya - 24 April 2008 at 2:04am